The inevitable manner in which the pro career casts shadows on college accomplishments.
JP Giglio at ACC Now is reporting that Sean May is ready to return to action in the NBA after having microfracture surgery. Giglio also points out that as we get ready to discuss Tyler Hansbrough’s place among the ACC greats that Sean May’s injury prone NBA career might exclude him from those conversations.
We’re going to spend a lot of time next ACC season comparing Tyler Hansbrough to the all-time greats of the game. Here’s a guess that May, the MOP of the 2005 NCAA Final Four, will be overlooked in that conversation because his pro career, thus far, has been an injury-filled bust.
May’s NBA shortcomings shouldn’t change the fact that we has a more dominant — not productive, but dominant — college player than Hansbrough, but undoubtedly they will.
Actually, May played an integral part in the legend of Psycho T. If May had returned to Chapel Hill for his senior season, as he had planned, Hansbrough would have spent the 2005-06 season as May’s Paduan learner.
Instead, Ray Felton convinced May to leave and the rest is history.
It is almost a certainty that had May stayed for his senior season, Hansbrough’s career numbers would not be near the level they are now. That is not to say he still would not end up being the all time leading scorer in UNC history but he would be further off since May would have been the centerpiece of the UNC offense in 2006. I also think it is noteworthy that May’s decision was not a bad one, he ended up being picked #13 in the draft and most agree made the right move. May’s stock was high after winning the title and being named MOP of the Final Four. There was also the matter of returning to a decimated team and not knowing what that would have done for your stock. As it turned out, May returning may have given UNC a legitimate shot at a 2nd straight Final Four appearance and at least the opportunity to defend their title. Undoubtedly May would have been a favorite for NPOY and playing alongside Hansbrough and David Noel with Reyshawn Terry developing and a serviceable Bobby Frasor at PG. Adding Marcus Ginyard and Danny Gree into the mix UNC was at least as good as the teams that ended up in the Final Four that season.
The notion that May will be excluded from discussion of Hansbrough’s place in UNC history has merit. I would argue that it goes beyond what has happened since he went to Charlotte. Any conversation you have about Hansbrough’s greatness and where he stands among the giants in a program like UNC often carries with it the criteria that a player perform at a high level for at least three years. May did not do that. Partially because he was injured his freshman season and also in part because of the nasty business that went down in 2003 leading to a coaching change. Hansbrough also has a NPOY, ACC POY and three straight All-ACC and All-American appearances.
That being said, if we are simply here to talk about the player’s dominance and impact, especially when a national title has been won as a result, Sean May should be included in the conversation. May’s junior season was an incredible performance, especially when you look at the 2nd half of the regular season and postseason play. We have discussed on this blog how much Hansbrough stepped up his game when Ty Lawson went down this past season. May essentially did the same thing, in fact I still have not been able to come to terms with how he was not the ACC POY. The media had their collective hearts set on Duke’s JJ Redick as the ACC POY by the midway point and even some outlandish performances from May, two of them coming against Duke’s Shelden Williams did not seem to change their mind. In the two games versus Duke in 2005, May averaged 24.5 ppg and 21 rpg. He had 24 rebounds in the regular season finale which is, in a word, ridiculous.
May ended up averaging a double-double for his career at UNC and recorded the most rebounds in a single season for a UNC player with 397, a record Hansbrough broke this past season with 399 rebounds. May carried UNC when Rashad McCants went out with an intestinal disorder and his leadership called to mind George Lynch’s championship or bust mentality from 1993. For his junior season alone, Sean May gets moved several notches up among UNC greats and had he played a full four years healthy, he would have easily been considered one of the all time greats.
Of course the fact May’s NBA career has never really taken off causes many to give pause when considering his past accomplishments. This tends to work in both directions however. James Worthy, for example, is ranked 45th on the UNC scoring list, did not win a consensus NPOY award but was an All-American. Worthy led the Heels to the 1982 title and was the Final Four MOP. His number is retired and he is automatically considered one of the greats of all time despite the fact his stats are fairly pedestrian when compared to Hansbrough. Why? Worthy ended up being a great in the NBA and that success gets projected backwards though his junior season, like May’s junior season was the only earth shattering one. The key is it included an NCAA ring and some great game winning performances. The same is often said about Michael Jordan(mostly by detractors) but in Jordan’s case he won a title(hitting the game winner) and was also a consensus NPOY. Jordan also did a fair amount of ridiculous things on the court in college.
The point is none of these debates take place in a vacuum. The culture is very present oriented and based on instant information to the point what May has been lately colors the perception of him which spills over into discussions of the past. I also believe there is an element of thinking the individuals is a fluke of sorts because they were wildly successful on one level and then on the next is a flop. This mentality does not seem to have caught up to JJ Redick yet, but it is difficult to discount a NPOY and all time leading scorer in ACC history. The same should hold for Hansbrough even if his NBA career does not pan out or goes the way of Redick which is unlikely since Hansbrough is not one to sit on the bench and whine.
And one final note on May. While the performances were dominant on the court and he was well spoken off, it is important to grasp what that title meant both in terms of burying 2002 and getting the gorilla off Roy’s back. Sean May stands as a symbol of the UNC program being restored to glory and in the process made sure Roy would never be labeled as the “best coach to never win a title” again. May was aware of all of this. His motivation to win the title bore these issues in mind and that element of his leadership coupled with the fact he stepped up a delivered(something Redick never did) cements him in UNC history as a fan favorite and extraordinary player.
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While we’re speculating, maybe we should consider the possibility May would have another injury filled season (as a hypothetical senior) as he did as a freshman and as he’s done ever since he got into the NBA.
Ifs, ands, wouldas and buts don’t change what actually happened so IMO all Giglio’s speculation is (a) boring and (b) moot.
I was in the team hotel lobby after the ‘Nova game in 2005 when my dad nodded to the left and I realized the guy I was rubbing shoulders with with was Scott May. When the team came in, all of the other players seemed remarkably loose and headed straight to their rooms. Sean, on the other hand, was not loose; and he was not happy. He came over to talk to his dad, and out of respect, I backed away, but you could tell that Scott was essentially telling Sean that they “had this.” It was one of the cooler moments I’ve experienced as a sports fan. The most amazing thing was the fact that not a single person came with in 10 feet of the two the entire time. It’s like every fan knew what was going on and did not want to mess it up!
To me I never look at my former heels as what did they do in the pros. Their NBA time is irrelevant to me. I look at players as what did they do for me as a Heel. In todays market a guy staying 3 years is like gold. May might have stayed if he hadn’t won a championship. Tyler might have left if he had. Montross stayed. (Rant) I hate when my boys leave school. I understand $$ but it rips my heart out.
With no disrespect THF, I agree with Silent Sam and have to say “who cares,” although I for one appreciate the analysis.
THF-
Your last paragraph hit the nail dead-on. What Sean May will always represent to me was the changing-of-the-guard in both the ACC and the national setting.
I think that we all (as UNC fans) immediately revert to that mental image of Sean grasping at his jersey and yelling in sheer jubilation after the title game. The post-title theatrics were, at times, wonderful (Jawad, Melvin, and Jackie celebrating together in prayer) and bizarre (shirtless Rashad…although it was cool to see him hold his jersey up and gaze at it admirably), but Sean greeting Roy with the giant bear hug absolutely RULED.
Sean May’s legacy will be that he embodied the pre-2005 struggle and, like a bold warrior, picked up the slack and willed his teammates back to the mountain top. Sean May on the cover off SI almost instantaneously wiped out 2002. To a new generation of hoops fans, they are too young to remember that dark period shortly after this decade began. For ther rest of us, they make what happened before ’05 a bit easier to stomach. Sean May helped to make UNC a program that was very much back in the present conversation. No longer would I (personally) have to talk of my beloved Heels in the historical context (like a did in Seaside, FL in the summer of 2002) when discussing college hoops with all whom I encoutered…thanks in part to Sean May. No longer would I have to justify the coaching brilliance of Roy Williams..thaks in part to Sean May.
Sean May helped turn the tide. I think that we all remember that we spent a few years in the far depths of the dark waters and…it was cold, merciless, and depressing.
Sean May is an all-time collegiate great on any level of discussion. If you talk about guys like JJ Redick and Shelden Williams being great, then put the guys who out-performed them (at the highest level) in that category as well.
I’m just saying, you know, it’s Sean May, man.
I think Giglio’s main point was lost. He was saying that when the time comes to compare Hansbrough to the greats, May would end getting overlooked because his pro career has been injury riddled. He is stating this is a mistake. I tend to think the pro career has to less to do with it than the fact he only had one really standout season, his junior year. He was good his sophomore year but nothing like what happened in 2005.
JP Giglio has a typo in his blog, but he meant to say that May “was a more dominant” player than Hansbrough while in college. I disagree with that statement. May had an amazing one-half of one season and helped win a championship on a great team filled with upperclassmen. Hansbrough has been a scoring and rebounding machine in every single game for 3 years and won a NPOY.
I think Giglio wants to say that May was more dominant because UNC won a championship with him but not Hansbrough. But the flip side is that if UNC had won two more games last year, Hansbrough would be the better player. That is dumb.
I basically skated around that issue simply because I did not want to get into it. Hansbrough by every measure that matters has been just as dominant if not more so over a more reliable period than May. May is closer to James Worthy in that he basically broke out in a spectacular manner during his junior season which resulted in a national title. The main difference that tips in May’s favorite is he delivered a national title by being clutch in the Final Four. Hansbrough failed in that respect but still has one more year to change that. Hansbrough has averaged more ppg and his rpg average is approaching May’s. Hansbrough is a NPOY, three time first team All-ACC and has posted some insane scoring numbers throughout his career, including 40 versus GT as a freshman. Hansbrough is the more dominant player hands down.
May deserves to be included among Tar Heel greats if for no other reason than his monster play during the championship run. No one could stop him – he became such a dominant force that tons of pressure was taken off others, allowing them to play even better. Without that level of play, that year would have been another “almost.”
After a week of reading about Tar Heel heartbreakers, its nice to be reminded of why we are Tar Heel fans.
Thanks Sean May!
Thanks James Worthy!
Let’s not discount May’s incredible half-season at all. The context was that Coach Roy was shifting the offensive focus of the team in mid-year, away from McCants’ shooting and slashing and giving it over to May in the post. And May responded, knowing that the team had a great chance to win it all and that it all revolved around him. He changed his game. I remember him flying from end to end in February of 05 and thinking “where did that come from?” He hadn’t been consistently running like that.
To me the context of the play matters, not just how dominant it was. So a player who translates great play into wins and banners is better than one who plays a dominant game but doesn’t go all the way. And Mays junior year absolutely ranks him among the great UNC forwards.
This is all interesting and I have to say May was a tarheel great, but the article is a little premature. I am not real sure what Hansbrough’s pro career is yet. How can we know how he will be remembered? He is currently completing his college career. Hopefully he won’t have a Bill Buckner moment as a senior and we all wish we never saw him…….. well, that’s pretty unlikely, but this conversation will be better in two years when Tyler is NBA rookie of the year and former NCAA Champion.
Also the parts of his game Hansbrough will be working on this year – jump shooting, shot blocking and passing – are precisely the added skills he will need to succeed in the NBA. Carlos Boozer as a 6’9″ forward without a ton of hops has transitioned very well in the NBA because of that killer jump shot he has developed. I don’t remember him having that in college. Maybe because he didn’t need it – he could just overpower folks around the rim like Hansbrough. But in the NBA, Hansbrough having a consistent 12- to 15-foot jump shot will allow him to start for some teams or become a prized 6th man.
Hate to jump in and ask a different question but does anyone know when the new schedule will be released? I saw today the we will play Nevada on New Years Eve. I’m thinking a little gambling trip may be in orderaround that time. Just wondering if anyone knew when the complete schedule will be released.
D,
Should be the end of August before the new schedule comes out, that was when it was released last year.
I don’t understand this idea that Hansbrough needs to work on his jump shooting. He is a reliable jump shooter. He just doesn’t take that many shots because he is so dominant down low. To me, that is called excellent shot selection. What if all he did was take jump shots (and hit most of them like he does now) we would say “he needs to work on his post moves. Just doesn’t make sense. If the defense gives him a jump shot opportunity, he takes it (and usually makes it). But he understands that the team needs him more down low, and he, better than adequately, delivers there as well.
Josh-
I can’t understand why people would say that Tyler needs to add a three-point game to make himself a better pro prospect. I agree with you in that he has developed an outside shot (some would say that it was already there, as evident by the clutch three against the Blue Devils in the ’06 ACC finale) already, and that his strength is to dominate (and detract defenders) down low. Plus, with Wayne Ellington, Danny Graves, Bobby Frasor, Larry Drew, Will Graves, and Ty Lawson out on the perimeter, why in the world does he need to improve upon what he has already shown us?
The one area that I would like to see Tyler improve upon is passing. Think about the cut-to-the-hoop opportunities that would be opened up if Tyler could take his man (or two) outside of the key, and then whip a pass to a cutting Green, Ellington, or Ginyard. I know that we have seen snapshots of this, but I’m think about it in a more unstoppable context; specifically, Malone-to-Stockton/pick-and-roll. Fundamentals, fundamentals, fundamentals.
But, to the point of the blog, Sean May’s legacy will be secure in that he will always be attached to the 2005 title run. He’s not the first UNC bust at the pro level, but the likes of Forte and Reid did not win a title at UNC. Sean May did, and therefore, gets the due credit.
After re-reading the article, I get the point. Sean May’s legacy should not outweigh (no pun intended)Hansbrough’s because of the ’05 title run. Hansbrough will be viewed as a great the way Phil Ford and Charlie Scott are; which is, he was one of, if not the, dominate player(s) in college basketball at the height of this tenure in Chapel Hill. It is ironic that neither Ford or Scott were part of a title-winning team, but it hasn’t hurt their legacy one bit. On the flipside, Kenny Smith seems to get overlooked far too often when discussing the all-time great Tar Heels (I mean, we seldom get all googly-eyed over discussing his tenure like we do Jordan, Worthy, Stackhouse, Carter, etc.). I firmly believe that this is attributed to the fact that Kenny played on four great Tar Heel teams that did not win a national title. Perhaps Kenny Smith reminds too many of us of that time when the title was most elusive, juxtaposed with the fact that Krzyzewski was building his perfect beast heading into the 90s.
Tyler’s legacy is already set in my opinion. I think that Sean May’s legacy was set after his junior season as well. Someone brought up a great point in that Sean could have returned and injured himself during his senior season. That lasting memory may have muddled our visions of him celebrating after the championship game against Illinois.
I was more upset over Marvin Williams departure than I was May. May delivered a National Championship to us in his junior season. As far as I am concerned, he can leave. You just don’t arue with someone who delivers a title to you. But I though with Marvin Williams’ good jump shot and post abilities, that we could have won the ACC regular season the next year (06) and even a sweet sixteen or elite 8 with his return. Great posts by the way DeanForever. I see your commentary as dead on!