Selective reasoning?
Check out this bit from the Washington Times about the sale of UNC’s allotment of tickets for the Maryland game this weekend:
According to senior associate athletic director for external operations Brian Ullmann, the school has sold about 47,500 tickets. That would at least ensure the Terps draw more than their last two home games, which were against Wake Forest (46,257) and N.C. State (45,018).
Nearly three-quarters of the unsold tickets come from a 4,000-seat block set aside for the visiting team. North Carolina has accounted for approximately 1,100 tickets, which is less than the 1,200 both N.C. State and Wake Forest sold for their games last month.
An educated guess as to why sales would be so tepid for fans of a 7-2 team enjoying its best season in a decade? Well, the top-ranked Carolina basketball team opens its season Saturday at 4 p.m., meeting Penn in the Dean Dome.
StateFansNation picked this up, as did Every Day Should Be Saturday. Both blogs immediately shuffled through the deck of cards and found the “UNC fans don’t give a crap about football” card and EDSBS went a step further and also played the “Why Would Butch Davis Want To Stay At UNC” card. Not really a surprise but something does not make sense with the facts presented. Let’s look at what the articles says.
1. Maryland has sold more tickets for this game(47,500) than they did for Wake Forest or NC State.
2. UNC’s allotment is 4000 of which they have sold 1100 at the time of publication.
3. Wake Forest and NC State both sold 1200 tickets of their allotment which we know to be a final number not one conjured up three days before the game.
Those are the facts which led to these conclusions.
1. The ticket sales on UNC’s part are tepid because UNC is 7-2 and one would think that would mean more sales from their end despite the fact it seems to be on same pace as the other two NC schools who have played at College Park.
2. The reason the sales are tepid is because UNC is also playing a basketball game in Chapel Hill at 4 PM while the football game is being played at 3:30 PM.
Here is my question.
Why is UNC having 1100 tickets sold three days before the game called “tepid” whereas NCSU and Wake selling 1200 is no problem?
The writer argues the expectation was UNC would sell more tickets because they are enjoying a successful season but Wake Forest is also enjoying a successful season and they sold the same amount. Of course the response to that is Wake Forest commands a much smaller fan base. Okay, then explain why NCSU had the same number of ticket sales? Is it because they have not been very good? That could be but then again, NCSU fans are well know for their loyalty and willingness to fill up Carter Finley week in and week out despite their record so pardon me if I do not buy that reasoning so much either.
The is an actual answer to this quandry is if you could compare the pace of ticket sales up until now. Why is that important? Because no one knew football would conflict with basketball until the game time was announced 10 days ago. If there was a sudden downturn in ticket sales once folks realized basketball and football would be playing at the same time, then there is merit to the argument. If however the sales have held steady or if UNC is actually outperfoming Wake and NCSU in sales over the past 10 days then the argument is poppycock.
I think it is poppycock anyway because it tries to link the number of tickets sold to the fact UNC is playing basketball at the same time without acknowledging the fact that UNC’s level of sales is the same as two other NC schools. If you are looking at this data, the most logical conclusion you draw if you did not know UNC was also playing basketball at the same time is that fans of NC school simply do not attend their team’s games at College Park, MD. Of course the problem with that is it does not fit with the narrative that UNC fans do not care about football and journalists will latch onto the easy meme rather than make a legitimate conclusion based on the facts. This past election cycle has taught us that and sports journalism is the same way, just watch ESPN for more than 15 minutes. For bloggers like SFN and EDSBS, it is also part of their narrative and in the case of the former red meat for their readers to make hay of this. And I might do the same thing if I did not have to highly successful teams to cover.
Anyway, if any of you have connections to folks at UNC or anyone from UNC happens to be reading this and can tell me how much of the allotment has been sold as of today I would love to post it.
Side Note: What would be interesting is comparing the ratings of the two games in North Carolina. The problem with that is UNC-Penn is on Fox Sports and UNC-MD is on ABC so the football game will garner larger numbers. As for me I am going to try my level best to watch both flipping back and forth. The overlap here might not be so bad because you can likely see most of the 1st quarter of the football game and then watch the basketball game in spurts. If the halftimes fall just right you can see plenty of chunks that way. Or better yet record the basketball game, watch the football game, then watch the basketball later just to see how well they played. They may be where I ultimately end up since blogging analysis requires I watch some of the games.
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this is interesting as I’ve read that people have contacted the UNC ticket office for tickets for this game only to be told that we are sold out of our allotment. Something doesn’t add up one way or the other.
I’m going to the game and I had no problem getting a ticket through the University of Maryland’s ticket office.
I’m sure other Heels in the DC area had to have done the same thing. When I called the UNC ticket office, I think they told me that the tickets were only for Ram’s Club Members.
You’re right on about SFN’s agenda in all of this. I do think that SFN is well-run and generally posts stuff that are well-written and well-researched, but all of their common sense goes right out the window when they’re writing about Carolina. The kind of specious reasoning, wishful thinking, and uncorroborated insinuating you see in their UNC-related posts are the kind of “news” that even the dirtiest, most shameless tabloid would shrink from posting. I take any and all arguments presented in a SFN post about Carolina with a lump of salt the size of the Atlantic Ocean, and it’s surprising that EDSBS (which is run by intelligent, if irreverent, guys) would just buy wholesale into a case of SFN’s standard anti-Carolina mudslinging.
Why does it matter, THF? Whoever shows up, will show up.
I think this whole thing about people arguing about who has the most rabid fans misses something important: some teams have fans who care way too much, i.e., Alabama football fans.
I think UNC fans have a nice balance. We love our teams but are respectful of our opponents and we realize that in the end, it is only a game. UK and KU basketball fans are probably more rabid than UNC basketball fans but I think our supporters are fine the way they are.
They should give the remaining tix and a bus ride to all interested students. This is a huge game for the football team. They should never allow this scheduling either.
Go job THF relating some facts at SFN. Jonathan is correct in his assessment of the site in that all logic gets thrown out the door when the topic is “UNX”
The UNC and NC State fan bases are probably more similar than alike when one takes a good, close look at actual attendance at a wide range of events. While I understand the historical reason’s Carolina football fans get their reputation for “not caring” I don’t know why NC State fans get the “passionate fan base” name. Save for a few big games over the years CFS is usually close to full at the beginning of the game, less so at half-time and in recent years pretty close to empty if the pack is losing. Let’s don’t even mention basketball attendance.
There are many parking and other obstacles that make it hard to pack Kenan while there are far less challenges showing up in CFS.
william,
More than anything I was pointing out the media’s propensity to fall back on a standard narrative and blogs like SFN and even EDSBS to drink it up. It was a profoundly asinine point. I don’t mind criticism that is fair and if people can show actual apathy among UNC fans in football then fine. In this case they were tortuously trying to connect the dots so they could say “Aha! UNC fans still don’t care about football!” that it required a response.
The crazy thing about all the chatter over at SFN about this is that why is there any chatter at all? They take every opportunity to trash the Heels, and I expect that. The problem is that there ain’t much that’s good to write about concerning Wolfpack sports these days. Their football team sucks, their bball might be less sucky than last year but probably won’t be very good, and don’t get me started about the majority of their other programs. They are pitiful and they realize this and turn to their next favorite pastime: trashing UNC. Their most favorite pastime is whining all the time about media bias while ignoring the fact that people don’t want to read about crappy teams.
You know the only people that give a horse’s ass about NC State athletics? State fans. They are not nationally relevant (and haven’t been since the 80′s). The fact that UNC continues its success in bball, soccer, field hockey, baseball, etc. (and now is successful in football) chaps their hides. Believe me, it drives them insane. When your rival has long passed you by, it hurts. And I love it!!!!!
HeelYeah,
I don’t know what you read in the comments over there but I responded by saying they should worry about their team and not UNC. It did not go over well.
The Washington Times is a conservative rag running a poor second (?…is the Grit still around?) to the big dog in the area/nation and is philosophically opposed to most things Carolina. SFN is StateFN, and EDSBS just wants to be “irreverent”. Consider the sources… there’ll be more than 1100 Heel fans there Sat.
I don’t visit opposing school’s sports fan sites so I can’t comment on the general nature of their content. However, I’m having a hard time recalling what the last ACC championship in any sport was for the Wolfpack. Cross country? Wrestling? Baseball? Honestly, I think they did win an NCAA bass-fishing tournament or something but overall their athletic program has been mediocre at best in the last decade. My opinion is that State fans hate Carolina more than they like their own teams.
They did win the Bass Fishing NC 2 years ago, but they finished damn near the bottom of the NCAA last year. They suck. Out loud.
THF,
I agree that this whole story is poppycock.
It is true that the UNC Ticket Office set aside its tickets for Rams Club Members.
I purchased my tickets through the Rams Club and got the package that included the pre-game party and meal.
As of 1 MONTH AGO, the package that included game tickets WAS SOLD OUT.
So where is this publication getting it’s info. You can longer purchase Carolina tickets to the game, so where are these supposed 2900 other tickets?
I ain’t scared of you people…
What?
I won’t try to defend SFN. I’m not one of the ABCers that you guys talk about. I have not seen the thread in question as of yet. Those who know me and my style will tell you that I call it like it is, whether it makes my boys look good or not.
That said, there are a lot of positive things about Wolfpack athletics right now, and if you want to read about them check my blog from time to time. Right now I’m focused on some MLB content, but I will be unleashing a barrage of positive NCSU content soon.
Basketball recruiting is on the upswing, and if State lands either Wall or Favors the 2009 class will be the best in the country.
Football recruiting is harder to peg, but State has a QB in Wilson who will put them back on the map. It’s year two of the TOB regime, and things are turning around. It might be hard to tell based on the shatty record, but things are getting better for State.
Yes, all the non-revenue sports suck. It is no secret. When your AD refuses to hold coaches accountable, this is what happens. State needs an AD that wants to be there, and wants to win there. They don’t have that right now, and it is killing the athletics program.
As for the tickets to the Maryland game, I don’t see what the fuss is over. Something doesn’t add up right with those ticket allotments, and based on both Wake and State having 1200 fannies in the stands (allegedly) it makes me think that there is a 1200 ticket cap on a regular basis. Maybe they released 4000 to UNC-CH and there is some sort of miscommunication at the ticket offices causing this discrepancy?
I’ve given UNC-CH fan hell in the past for not filling up Keenan. I can’t do that anymore.
As for hating UNC-CH more than loving State, that is “poppycock”. While most State fans enjoy a good UNC-CH loss, we do indeed prefer a Wolfpack win to anything else (sports related).
A couple questions TSI:
How will landing either Wall or Favors give NXSU the best class of 2009? I can see getting both AND another lesser talent could give you a top 5 class. That makes sense to me, but just landing 1 will give you the best class?
How long do you think Wilson will continue to play football? It is my understanding that his real future lies in baseball. When does he make the ‘Andrew Brackman’ decision?
If they land both Wall and Favors it will vault them right up there.
UNC has two five stars and three four start.
NCSU if they landed those two would have two five stars, two four stars, and a three star.
However, UNC has two top 25 and four in the top 50, all five in the 100.
NCSU would have two in the top 25, three in the top 50, and four in the top 100.
I think the edge would go to UNC and possibly even Texas but NCSU would be right up there.
Three things: One: Ignore anything the Washington Times says because they, frankly, have no clue what they’re talking about on anything except for the Washington Nationals.
Two: Similar to other commenting on this post, I too called the UNC ticket office to get tickets for some friends who were hoping to join me at the game, only to be told that the remaining tickets were only for Rams Club members.
Three: There are a crap ton of Carolina alumni in the Washington, D.C. area. Thing is, if they plan to go to the game, most of them are probably either getting tickets through friends that are Maryland fans, or they’re just buying them straight from the Maryland ticket office.
THF,
Yeah, I saw your post at SFN. I post over there as doatesjr. I’ve made some straightforward statements over there before (relatively unbiased I believed) and have gotten hammered. I don’t post much anymore, but I read a lot. It blows my mind how much smack (some of it downright rude and crude) they talk about UNC, its alumni, and its fans.
It shouldn’t surprise you at all. The ONLY thing NXSU and their fans have to hold on to is their hate of UNX. They suck across the board at everything that they do.