Well, maybe there are more deep-seated issues here. I saw a lot of jawing in the Carolina huddle during time-outs. Wake is a good team and it was on the road, but you have to be able to shoot and you have to know not to keep fouling Teague ovre and over. It makes no sense.
Okay I know this is a reaction while the wound is still fresh but did anyone else think that Roy got out-coached on a couple of key possessions? Also, having Frasor guard Teague is not a good idea ever. I’m not questioning the man’s coaching skill, of course he’s one of the best but he’s gotta get his lineup in order. Outside of the starting 5 the rest look uncomfortable when they’re on the floor together. This is really frustrating.
The jawing doesn’t bother me. That happens from time to time. This team has been together too long for something to crop up now.
I hate to say it, but that was one of the most poorly officiated games I’ve ever seen. Yes, UNC shot poorly, but they were getting mauled, while Teague had several phantom calls go his way. The thing that sucks most is that UNC doesn’t get Wake in CH, which would at least balance things out.
Thank God for Danny Green is right. He really stepped it up big time tonight. Thats about all the good I can say about this game. Carolina at the bottom of the ACC (even if it is only 2 games in) is not right. Great game DG.
william you might have been on the mark about this team last week. One good thing I think will come out of this is Deon seemed to improve underneath in the 2nd half–ie–he’s figuring out he has to go stronger in ACC play. Face it–this team is pretty bad on defense compared to their upper tier brethren. Rebounding was slightly better tonight, but still not for a top team. Lowering my expectations for the year at this point–hope I’m wrong.
We can no longer say that it’s time to wake up. We ARE awake. The waking reality is that we are a really good team, but not even arguably the best team in the country. The chances that we’ll win the national championship are negligible, and the chances that we’ll even win the ACC are poor. Wake and Dook are both better.
There is no use in taking consolation that we made it a close game. We were outplayed throughout. That’s the sorry truth of it.
The problems are legion: We cannot stop a really good point guard, our shooting percentage is abominable (time to put the rims up in practice), our free throw shooting is average and slipping, the turnovers are increasing. All told, the team is regressing. Time for the coach to take a look in the mirror.
Deon Thompson started the season a new man, but that’s all over with. Lawson’s play was outstanding for several weeks, but has fallen off a cliff. Ellington made some three-pointers at the end of this game, but you can’t shoot 18% for 36 minutes and expect to win. More generally, the most charitable thing you can say about Ellington is that he hasn’t elevated his game from last year. Graves re-made his body over the summer, but is still grossly mistake prone and cannot be used for anything close to the minutes Roy had him in in a game like this.
There’s also no use waiting for Ginyard or Zeller or Frasor, or bemoaning their absence. Ginyard’s problems are obviously more intractable than we had thought; Zeller is probably done for the season; and Frasor, for all his effort and court-sense, never had the quickness or the shot to be a major contributor, and has even less now, in the aftermath of his injury.
The team is still a good team; most college basketball fans would love to have it. But it’s not what we thought it was.
We had something to prove in this Wake game. We proved it. Unfortunately, what we proved is that the BC game was no fluke.
I’m sorry to be so down, and if anyone out there has evidence that I’m wrong, believe me, wrong is what I’d love to be.
One huge thing is that Wayne Ellington (I know he hit two at the end after we were down by 9) has not emerged as the long distance shooter Carolina needs. The 2005 team had both Felton and McCants and to a lesser extent Jawad and Melvin, who could hit the three. 2-12 or whatever it was with about two minutes to go from three point range is pitiful. If you can’t make the other team come out and guard you, you’ve got problems. Lawson cannot hit the three except off perfect screens or unless he is unguarded.
I did think the offensive rebounding looked a lot better and the defense actually looked better, aside from fouling Teague over and over again.
We won all the close games in the regular season last year except against Maryland. Two years ago, we lost them all. Them’s the breaks and that is why you want a double digit lead going into crunch time.
Rath, we were the best team last year and we haven’t lost anybody, except for Ginyard. Wake’s new recruits are apparently better than ours, at least without Zeller playing. Wake didn’t do anything more than show they could beat us at home when we can’t shoot.
I stand by my belief that the 2007 team with B. Wright was better than the 2008 or 2009 teams, at least so far, but that doesn’t mean these aren’t excellent teams.
I don’t think there is any cause for panic. Everybody take a deep breath and go back and study the season of the 1997 Heels.
I agree, rathskellar, there are so many problems with team that it is hard to know where to start. Maddening because this is a team so rich with talent. The offense is not crisp, they take too many shots too quickly trying to hunt out the three, and defensive are just a few of the many. Back to the drawing board. And we are 0-2 in the ACC.
Wow…brutal to watch…agree with those above that DG was great tonight…he really stepped up and kept Carolina in it throughout.
No question the officiating was less than stellar, seems to be a theme in ACC play, but one thing is abundantly clear this season…
This team goes as Lawson goes!!!
He plays mediocre to poor, they are in trouble…obviously, this is no great revelation, but starting with the Final Four last year and adding to that the BC game and now tonight’s game…Ty doesn’t play well, they don’t win against quality competition…he got worked by Chalmers and Collins last year, Rice against BC and now Teague…not good, especially since after the C of C win, he sounded so “gung-ho” about facing Wake…certainly hope he can play the rest of the season like he did the start of the season…
Actually, the brilliant know it all William has been completely wrong about this team until it tanked against BC. He gets all the data from the internet and pretends to know everthing, which he does historically, but has no clue as to evaluating a team in actual play. He only started criticizing the team when it lost to BC. I would say to William stop being the know it all and ruining this blog until you can provide some actual forward going insight. We all know history. You with all of your talk and knowledge only became the expert on our losing when it fact we started losing. I pointed out Ty Lawson’s weaknesses two months ago and everyone blasted me. I’ll have more to stay later if THF doesn’t boot me.
Ummmmmm, is anybody really pissed at the fact that all of our team is not playing like they did last year? And by that I mean before they all went to the NBA camp or listened to what any scout told them. Tyler Hansbrough is not the same player he was the past three years. Get in the paint Tyler. You have made your living there, now get back to it. And if Roy doesn’t tell him that, I have a huge issue with Roy’s coaching ability. Tyler taking a three with a minute or so left in the half??? The old Tyler would be in the paint, get the ball, make a layup and get fouled for the three point play. Time for the old Tyler to come back, the NBA is a year away, get your crap together.
Anyone jumping ship after an 0-2 start in ACC play…gimme a call if you need a shove. I will help push you. Go to the tape of Dean Smith’s last year, for goodness sake. That ended quite well, considering an 0-3 start
This is a very good team that has not learned to play D against teams that can equal their athleticism on the perimeter as well as depth in the paint. Wake had both of those working well tonight.
This team could peak tomorrow, hit on all cylinders and blow the doors off 14 games in a row. We’ve seen them do it. Talent is still there to do it
Lawson may be back next season if he keeps getting used by good competition.
Another night where things didn’t really go our way. We missed a lot of close shots that we would normally make, and we missed some key FT’s down the stretch by very good FT shooters. I didn’t really understand the officiating, it as all over the place.
Please let us not forget that we lost to a top 5 team on the road and had a piss poor night offensively and had some tough calls against us. I feel much better about this loss than BC, which means I still fell like crap.
I think what makes this so frustrating is that this is a repeat of what Kansas did to us in the Final Four. Lawson is a good guard, but there are a few players he can’t dominate like he can most of the time. As I see it, the problem is Ellington. He doesn’t seem to be able to step up when he’s needed. He gets mentioned along with Hansbrough and Lawson as a star, but it’s rare when he steps forward to carry the team, while Lawson and Hansbrough both do it regularly. When Lawson is getting matched up tough, he needs his backcourt partner to help him out, and Ellington just disappears. Thompson has also revealed himself to be unable to step up with competition.
I’d like to see Roy start Graves and Davis in place of Ellington and Thompson next game to send a mesage.
Well, the best two guards in the ACC are probably Teague and Rice and so at least, we are through with those guys. Lawson probably does have matchup problems with those guys. We have Virginia twice, State twice and Maryland twice, who are not as strong. Next game is pretty far away, Thursday at Virginia.
AND, please return to the tape for the 2008 season. Through the first 3 games of ACC play, UNC was 2-1. Those 2 wins were a combined margin of 3 points: 90-88 at Clemson, and 83-82 at Ga Tech. The home loss to Maryland followed. The Clemson win included the hugest game of Ellington’s career.
Heelyeah, you can’t say this “Another night where things didn’t really go our way.” all season long. Something is not right with the team. It needs to be fixed, or you will be repeating that statement in your sleep until March.
I’m not saying Ty isn’t having his own issues, but he isn’t getting near the help that Rice and Teague have on the defensive end. Is that an athleticism issue for us, or a smarts/effort issue??
TxTarheel — I don’t believe it’s “jumping ship” to point out the flaws that have been exposed over the last eight days, to express disappointment with them, or to acknowledge that they bode ill for our overall prospects in the ACC, not to mention the NCAA.
It is true, as you say, that the team “could” peak tommorow and run the table over the rest of the ACC season. But your comment points to no evidence that this is what will happen, and with all respect, the recent evidence seems very much to point in a different direction.
ILMTarheel – I agree that Tyler’s outside shot was stupid, but I also think it was a frustration shot. After all, it looked a lot better than most of the outside shots tonight other than Green’s and the last couple by Ellington. Again, these last two losses look to me a lot like the loss against Kansas. I think Tyler got to the point that SOMEONE had to make an outside shot, and he couldn’t do much worse than what his backcourt was doing. I think Roy will have a talk with him about it.
Ty is a great player but to me, he is a slightly taller, okay, half a foot taller, but still short, version of Muggsy Bogues. Bogues had a nice pro career but he was more of a guy who could get you some minutes that were effective. I think Ty can do that in the NBA, but he does not match up against guys who are 6′ 2″ and taller.
How tall do you guys think Lawson really is? I think he is under 5′ 10″.
52bgJ – Practice ain’t a game. Like Tyler, I’m from Missouri. I’ll think it was a good shot (he gets a lot of these looks every game) when they start going down.
I don’t know william but I don’t think he’s much shorter than Raymond, and he was a good penetrator. Watch the tape–they’re coming over on him–that’s when you dish (if peeps are in the right position). Really this team is a very poor interior passing team too.
First of all I am going to address the general temperament of comments and what not tomorrow which is to say unless you do something really, really nasty I won’t ban you tonight but be warned I am six kinds of pissed about the kind of crap that was flowing in the liveblog so the ban hammer is locked and loaded.
Secondly, I understand everyone is frustrated. I am frustrated and I have no idea why this team has so many pieces missing right now. Guess Roy has some work to do.
Give me a break, I’m not going to say the Heels had a bad night after each loss, but if you watched the two losses it’s not hard to see that offensively we missed some easy shots. I’m not saying our defense didn’t have something to do with our losses, but we shoot a few % points better in this game (or hit some of those late free throws) and we might pull out a win tonight.
The BC game pisses me off because that’s against an inferior team and we were at home. However, the Wake game is probably our toughest until tourney time. We match up much better with Dook than Wake, and as william mentioned, we just played the 2 best PG in the league.
After losing to Duke at home last year, when Lawson was out, UNC ran off 15 in a a row prior to the loss to Kansas in the final four. That will be my proof that they are capable of doing it again. I’ve seen them do it in seasons past, but only if they buckle down defensively.
William – I think it’s too much to expect Lawson to dominate everyone all the time. When he gets people who can match well against him, he needs help from someone else besides Green. As I’ve said already, I think his backcourt partner is the one who needs to step up. Ellington has a ton of talent. I don’t know what his problem is except he can’t seem to take his turn carrying this team. I know there have been games where he has scored, but I don’t remember any where he pulled the load. I can think of games where the other starting four have done so.
Come on now William. It is nice to have these kinds of comments to enable us to laugh after such a disasterous loss . I think this is just his way of exercising frustration after a game of this kind. He’ll be back on board when we win again.
Get the losses out now. Wake will lose a couple through ACC play. Like the Heels they will go as there PG. Right now Teague is superior to Lawson, but when he is off, they will lose. There bigs are not as talented as ours. Something is wrong with Deon, Ed should start next game. Alex Stephson is really missed at this point, really missed. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Heels win out the rest of the season. The biggest test is not going to be Duke, it will be Clemson at home. The ACC is ****** backwards with the off balance scheduling. Football money got to the board’s head. Football rocks, oh wait, the ACC was really bad in bowl season.
I know JBowling, but I don’t think race matters, first of all, and second, they aren’t all any particular race and third, some of those guys, like Copeland and Moody, are pretty decent.
Thanks, TxTarheel–I have seen him standing next to some of the other Heels who are supposed to be about 6′ 2″ and he looks about half a foot shorter so that seems about right.
well, maybe, but I think you were closer when mentioning Wright as a help-side shot blocker than Ty’s supposed weaknesses. Roy has said himself that ball pressure prevents passes in to the post, so Ty has to give up something. I agree that Lawson is the key, but I think the probs can be traced to incocnsistent help on defense, and (on offense)poor vision/options on penetration, but that’s jmo.
I mean, saying that Ty is not a giant is not criticizing him and neither is saying that Rice and Teague might be better than he is and neither is wondering if Felton wasn’t better as well.
Ty is the guy we have and I think a lot of us are just making the point that, “Hey, we love you Ty and we think you should be at Carolina for the long haul, all four years and we think, additionally, you can play even better than you did against BC and Wake!”
TxTarheel — To say that the team is CAPABLE of running the table is not to provide evidence that it WILL do so. It was also capable of beating BC and Wake. But because of some problems that I and other commenters have noted, and that to my knowledge you have not disputed, it didn’t happen.
Second, the achievements of past teams are no very good gauge of what will happen with the present one. Were it otherwise, Kansas would be on its way to the national crown, something that, for all its many outstanding seasons, seems very unlikely to happen this year.
Without too much analyzing here, maybe this is a good sign. We lose now so we can win in March. Maybe getting punched in the mouth now will teach us to get tougher in March.
Rath, Carolina has about the same guys this year; Kansas doesn’t. The historical stuff is just to show people things that have happened in the past when people said everything was over. People were saying Dean needed to retire in 1997; it was almost like the Joe Paterno thing a couple of years back.
Let’s do try to be positive about some things. It was a fun game to watch and Carolina never gave up, again when they had the chance and were down 8 or 9 points. Danny wanted some tough games and he stepped up. Now, for the other guys to step up a bit more with him.
One other thing that I’ve wondered about this team is, who is the team leader on the floor…I’d probably gravitate toward Ginyard last year, but without him, it is clear there is a void.
I’m still a bit concerned about Lawson and maybe it’s because I keep comparing him with Felton, the reason being is with Felton, you never had to be concerned about whether he’d “bring it” every game, he just did, and he lead that team both vocally and with his play. Maybe I’m expecting a bit too much from Lawson, but recently I feel concerned going into each game as to whether he’ll be ready to play…at this point, I would settle for a motivated Lawson who leads the team with his play…
Here’s hoping we get to watch the Carolina team that played in Ford Field going forward…
A few more comments in response to the above:
1. Ellington was a tremendous high school basketball player. He is now the Emperor wearing no clothes. We refuse to see that he is mediocre at best. He is capable of a great game (Clemson last year) but is not a great college player.
2. Danny has the most guts to play on the team after Hansbrough but also is a mediocre talent. The NBA is not drooling.
3. Lawson has at the very least 2 point guards who are better than him in the ACC….how many more remains to be seen. The NBA is not drooling.
4. Tyler Hansbrough can’t do it all. He is a great player and will have a long durable career in the NBA.
5. The Deon/Davis position has to pick it up.
6. We need better practice players……choosing 4-5 political picks who have good grades and average basketball talent doesn’t get it.
night all–good points Andy & william–if this ACC season isn’t the forging blast furnace, I don’t know what is…Johnny Cashs’ “boy named Sue” comes to mind.
rathskellar…I am merely suggesting an over-reaction to dropping an early season contest or two.
Evidence…no i don’t have any yet, so please stop asking for it. I don’t see them in practice, so I can’t speak as to what will happen. My evidence comes from the body of work of a senior class that has come in and done everything a UNC fan could hope for, except win the national title. Which I BELIEVE that can still be done. This team can and has played at a very high level…maybe a good challenge is what they need to get kcik-started and ESPN can stop drooling over how well Tyler “listens”.
TxTarheel – You’re right about what this team has accomplished before. I also think that with Wake Forest’s play and Duke’s improvement, the ACC is a stronger conference than what they’ve faced before. I think they can win it all, but I think the problem that needs to be fixed is the backcourt. Maybe they need to go to a three guard set when Lawson is playing a tough matchup. But that’s what I’m looking for a solution for so we don’t have a repeat of last year’s Final Four embarassment.
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in here at the stadium. looks like this stadium will get crazy
UNC apparently is a one-man team. Thank God for Danny Green. Nobody else can drive or shoot or play defense. Very strange.
Well, maybe there are more deep-seated issues here. I saw a lot of jawing in the Carolina huddle during time-outs. Wake is a good team and it was on the road, but you have to be able to shoot and you have to know not to keep fouling Teague ovre and over. It makes no sense.
This is pitiful….. I am gone from here for awhile. I have never been so out done with carolina basketball.
Okay I know this is a reaction while the wound is still fresh but did anyone else think that Roy got out-coached on a couple of key possessions? Also, having Frasor guard Teague is not a good idea ever. I’m not questioning the man’s coaching skill, of course he’s one of the best but he’s gotta get his lineup in order. Outside of the starting 5 the rest look uncomfortable when they’re on the floor together. This is really frustrating.
The jawing doesn’t bother me. That happens from time to time. This team has been together too long for something to crop up now.
I hate to say it, but that was one of the most poorly officiated games I’ve ever seen. Yes, UNC shot poorly, but they were getting mauled, while Teague had several phantom calls go his way. The thing that sucks most is that UNC doesn’t get Wake in CH, which would at least balance things out.
Thank God for Danny Green is right. He really stepped it up big time tonight. Thats about all the good I can say about this game. Carolina at the bottom of the ACC (even if it is only 2 games in) is not right. Great game DG.
“I have never been so out done with carolina basketball.”
So you’re saying you just started rooting for UNC in 2004-05, hey? Because the three previous years to that make this past week look like a vacation…
william you might have been on the mark about this team last week. One good thing I think will come out of this is Deon seemed to improve underneath in the 2nd half–ie–he’s figuring out he has to go stronger in ACC play. Face it–this team is pretty bad on defense compared to their upper tier brethren. Rebounding was slightly better tonight, but still not for a top team. Lowering my expectations for the year at this point–hope I’m wrong.
We can no longer say that it’s time to wake up. We ARE awake. The waking reality is that we are a really good team, but not even arguably the best team in the country. The chances that we’ll win the national championship are negligible, and the chances that we’ll even win the ACC are poor. Wake and Dook are both better.
There is no use in taking consolation that we made it a close game. We were outplayed throughout. That’s the sorry truth of it.
The problems are legion: We cannot stop a really good point guard, our shooting percentage is abominable (time to put the rims up in practice), our free throw shooting is average and slipping, the turnovers are increasing. All told, the team is regressing. Time for the coach to take a look in the mirror.
Deon Thompson started the season a new man, but that’s all over with. Lawson’s play was outstanding for several weeks, but has fallen off a cliff. Ellington made some three-pointers at the end of this game, but you can’t shoot 18% for 36 minutes and expect to win. More generally, the most charitable thing you can say about Ellington is that he hasn’t elevated his game from last year. Graves re-made his body over the summer, but is still grossly mistake prone and cannot be used for anything close to the minutes Roy had him in in a game like this.
There’s also no use waiting for Ginyard or Zeller or Frasor, or bemoaning their absence. Ginyard’s problems are obviously more intractable than we had thought; Zeller is probably done for the season; and Frasor, for all his effort and court-sense, never had the quickness or the shot to be a major contributor, and has even less now, in the aftermath of his injury.
The team is still a good team; most college basketball fans would love to have it. But it’s not what we thought it was.
We had something to prove in this Wake game. We proved it. Unfortunately, what we proved is that the BC game was no fluke.
I’m sorry to be so down, and if anyone out there has evidence that I’m wrong, believe me, wrong is what I’d love to be.
One huge thing is that Wayne Ellington (I know he hit two at the end after we were down by 9) has not emerged as the long distance shooter Carolina needs. The 2005 team had both Felton and McCants and to a lesser extent Jawad and Melvin, who could hit the three. 2-12 or whatever it was with about two minutes to go from three point range is pitiful. If you can’t make the other team come out and guard you, you’ve got problems. Lawson cannot hit the three except off perfect screens or unless he is unguarded.
I did think the offensive rebounding looked a lot better and the defense actually looked better, aside from fouling Teague over and over again.
We won all the close games in the regular season last year except against Maryland. Two years ago, we lost them all. Them’s the breaks and that is why you want a double digit lead going into crunch time.
Rath, we were the best team last year and we haven’t lost anybody, except for Ginyard. Wake’s new recruits are apparently better than ours, at least without Zeller playing. Wake didn’t do anything more than show they could beat us at home when we can’t shoot.
I stand by my belief that the 2007 team with B. Wright was better than the 2008 or 2009 teams, at least so far, but that doesn’t mean these aren’t excellent teams.
I don’t think there is any cause for panic. Everybody take a deep breath and go back and study the season of the 1997 Heels.
I agree, rathskellar, there are so many problems with team that it is hard to know where to start. Maddening because this is a team so rich with talent. The offense is not crisp, they take too many shots too quickly trying to hunt out the three, and defensive are just a few of the many. Back to the drawing board. And we are 0-2 in the ACC.
Wow…brutal to watch…agree with those above that DG was great tonight…he really stepped up and kept Carolina in it throughout.
No question the officiating was less than stellar, seems to be a theme in ACC play, but one thing is abundantly clear this season…
This team goes as Lawson goes!!!
He plays mediocre to poor, they are in trouble…obviously, this is no great revelation, but starting with the Final Four last year and adding to that the BC game and now tonight’s game…Ty doesn’t play well, they don’t win against quality competition…he got worked by Chalmers and Collins last year, Rice against BC and now Teague…not good, especially since after the C of C win, he sounded so “gung-ho” about facing Wake…certainly hope he can play the rest of the season like he did the start of the season…
Actually, the brilliant know it all William has been completely wrong about this team until it tanked against BC. He gets all the data from the internet and pretends to know everthing, which he does historically, but has no clue as to evaluating a team in actual play. He only started criticizing the team when it lost to BC. I would say to William stop being the know it all and ruining this blog until you can provide some actual forward going insight. We all know history. You with all of your talk and knowledge only became the expert on our losing when it fact we started losing. I pointed out Ty Lawson’s weaknesses two months ago and everyone blasted me. I’ll have more to stay later if THF doesn’t boot me.
Ummmmmm, is anybody really pissed at the fact that all of our team is not playing like they did last year? And by that I mean before they all went to the NBA camp or listened to what any scout told them. Tyler Hansbrough is not the same player he was the past three years. Get in the paint Tyler. You have made your living there, now get back to it. And if Roy doesn’t tell him that, I have a huge issue with Roy’s coaching ability. Tyler taking a three with a minute or so left in the half??? The old Tyler would be in the paint, get the ball, make a layup and get fouled for the three point play. Time for the old Tyler to come back, the NBA is a year away, get your crap together.
Anyone jumping ship after an 0-2 start in ACC play…gimme a call if you need a shove. I will help push you. Go to the tape of Dean Smith’s last year, for goodness sake. That ended quite well, considering an 0-3 start
This is a very good team that has not learned to play D against teams that can equal their athleticism on the perimeter as well as depth in the paint. Wake had both of those working well tonight.
This team could peak tomorrow, hit on all cylinders and blow the doors off 14 games in a row. We’ve seen them do it. Talent is still there to do it
Lawson may be back next season if he keeps getting used by good competition.
Another night where things didn’t really go our way. We missed a lot of close shots that we would normally make, and we missed some key FT’s down the stretch by very good FT shooters. I didn’t really understand the officiating, it as all over the place.
Please let us not forget that we lost to a top 5 team on the road and had a piss poor night offensively and had some tough calls against us. I feel much better about this loss than BC, which means I still fell like crap.
I think what makes this so frustrating is that this is a repeat of what Kansas did to us in the Final Four. Lawson is a good guard, but there are a few players he can’t dominate like he can most of the time. As I see it, the problem is Ellington. He doesn’t seem to be able to step up when he’s needed. He gets mentioned along with Hansbrough and Lawson as a star, but it’s rare when he steps forward to carry the team, while Lawson and Hansbrough both do it regularly. When Lawson is getting matched up tough, he needs his backcourt partner to help him out, and Ellington just disappears. Thompson has also revealed himself to be unable to step up with competition.
I’d like to see Roy start Graves and Davis in place of Ellington and Thompson next game to send a mesage.
Well, the best two guards in the ACC are probably Teague and Rice and so at least, we are through with those guys. Lawson probably does have matchup problems with those guys. We have Virginia twice, State twice and Maryland twice, who are not as strong. Next game is pretty far away, Thursday at Virginia.
AND, please return to the tape for the 2008 season. Through the first 3 games of ACC play, UNC was 2-1. Those 2 wins were a combined margin of 3 points: 90-88 at Clemson, and 83-82 at Ga Tech. The home loss to Maryland followed. The Clemson win included the hugest game of Ellington’s career.
Heelyeah, you can’t say this “Another night where things didn’t really go our way.” all season long. Something is not right with the team. It needs to be fixed, or you will be repeating that statement in your sleep until March.
hope so.
I’m not saying Ty isn’t having his own issues, but he isn’t getting near the help that Rice and Teague have on the defensive end. Is that an athleticism issue for us, or a smarts/effort issue??
TxTarheel — I don’t believe it’s “jumping ship” to point out the flaws that have been exposed over the last eight days, to express disappointment with them, or to acknowledge that they bode ill for our overall prospects in the ACC, not to mention the NCAA.
It is true, as you say, that the team “could” peak tommorow and run the table over the rest of the ACC season. But your comment points to no evidence that this is what will happen, and with all respect, the recent evidence seems very much to point in a different direction.
ILMTarheel – I agree that Tyler’s outside shot was stupid, but I also think it was a frustration shot. After all, it looked a lot better than most of the outside shots tonight other than Green’s and the last couple by Ellington. Again, these last two losses look to me a lot like the loss against Kansas. I think Tyler got to the point that SOMEONE had to make an outside shot, and he couldn’t do much worse than what his backcourt was doing. I think Roy will have a talk with him about it.
Big Chief–it was an open 3, and he nails them regularly in practice. That was the least of our problems.
Ty is a great player but to me, he is a slightly taller, okay, half a foot taller, but still short, version of Muggsy Bogues. Bogues had a nice pro career but he was more of a guy who could get you some minutes that were effective. I think Ty can do that in the NBA, but he does not match up against guys who are 6′ 2″ and taller.
How tall do you guys think Lawson really is? I think he is under 5′ 10″.
52bgJ – Practice ain’t a game. Like Tyler, I’m from Missouri. I’ll think it was a good shot (he gets a lot of these looks every game) when they start going down.
I don’t know william but I don’t think he’s much shorter than Raymond, and he was a good penetrator. Watch the tape–they’re coming over on him–that’s when you dish (if peeps are in the right position). Really this team is a very poor interior passing team too.
First of all I am going to address the general temperament of comments and what not tomorrow which is to say unless you do something really, really nasty I won’t ban you tonight but be warned I am six kinds of pissed about the kind of crap that was flowing in the liveblog so the ban hammer is locked and loaded.
Secondly, I understand everyone is frustrated. I am frustrated and I have no idea why this team has so many pieces missing right now. Guess Roy has some work to do.
Give me a break, I’m not going to say the Heels had a bad night after each loss, but if you watched the two losses it’s not hard to see that offensively we missed some easy shots. I’m not saying our defense didn’t have something to do with our losses, but we shoot a few % points better in this game (or hit some of those late free throws) and we might pull out a win tonight.
The BC game pisses me off because that’s against an inferior team and we were at home. However, the Wake game is probably our toughest until tourney time. We match up much better with Dook than Wake, and as william mentioned, we just played the 2 best PG in the league.
After losing to Duke at home last year, when Lawson was out, UNC ran off 15 in a a row prior to the loss to Kansas in the final four. That will be my proof that they are capable of doing it again. I’ve seen them do it in seasons past, but only if they buckle down defensively.
William – I think it’s too much to expect Lawson to dominate everyone all the time. When he gets people who can match well against him, he needs help from someone else besides Green. As I’ve said already, I think his backcourt partner is the one who needs to step up. Ellington has a ton of talent. I don’t know what his problem is except he can’t seem to take his turn carrying this team. I know there have been games where he has scored, but I don’t remember any where he pulled the load. I can think of games where the other starting four have done so.
Come on now William. It is nice to have these kinds of comments to enable us to laugh after such a disasterous loss
. I think this is just his way of exercising frustration after a game of this kind. He’ll be back on board when we win again.
He plays smaller than Ray, though. Ray is listed at 6′ 1″, which means he is probably six feet and Lawson is probably almost 5′ 10″.
Roy doesn’t sound upset at all about losing. Wake may have just as good talent with Zeller and Ginyard out.
I gotta nephew going to UNC-CH this year. he says Lawson is at best 5’9″
Get the losses out now. Wake will lose a couple through ACC play. Like the Heels they will go as there PG. Right now Teague is superior to Lawson, but when he is off, they will lose. There bigs are not as talented as ours. Something is wrong with Deon, Ed should start next game. Alex Stephson is really missed at this point, really missed. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Heels win out the rest of the season. The biggest test is not going to be Duke, it will be Clemson at home. The ACC is ****** backwards with the off balance scheduling. Football money got to the board’s head. Football rocks, oh wait, the ACC was really bad in bowl season.
HeelYeah – Good Comment. You’re probably correct.
I know JBowling, but I don’t think race matters, first of all, and second, they aren’t all any particular race and third, some of those guys, like Copeland and Moody, are pretty decent.
Thanks, TxTarheel–I have seen him standing next to some of the other Heels who are supposed to be about 6′ 2″ and he looks about half a foot shorter so that seems about right.
well, maybe, but I think you were closer when mentioning Wright as a help-side shot blocker than Ty’s supposed weaknesses. Roy has said himself that ball pressure prevents passes in to the post, so Ty has to give up something. I agree that Lawson is the key, but I think the probs can be traced to incocnsistent help on defense, and (on offense)poor vision/options on penetration, but that’s jmo.
I mean, saying that Ty is not a giant is not criticizing him and neither is saying that Rice and Teague might be better than he is and neither is wondering if Felton wasn’t better as well.
Ty is the guy we have and I think a lot of us are just making the point that, “Hey, we love you Ty and we think you should be at Carolina for the long haul, all four years and we think, additionally, you can play even better than you did against BC and Wake!”
TxTarheel — To say that the team is CAPABLE of running the table is not to provide evidence that it WILL do so. It was also capable of beating BC and Wake. But because of some problems that I and other commenters have noted, and that to my knowledge you have not disputed, it didn’t happen.
Second, the achievements of past teams are no very good gauge of what will happen with the present one. Were it otherwise, Kansas would be on its way to the national crown, something that, for all its many outstanding seasons, seems very unlikely to happen this year.
Without too much analyzing here, maybe this is a good sign. We lose now so we can win in March. Maybe getting punched in the mouth now will teach us to get tougher in March.
good night ya’ll…and by the way, John fox and Tom Couglin are having a worser day than roy williams did. UNC’s season isn’t over yet…by a long shot
Rath, Carolina has about the same guys this year; Kansas doesn’t. The historical stuff is just to show people things that have happened in the past when people said everything was over. People were saying Dean needed to retire in 1997; it was almost like the Joe Paterno thing a couple of years back.
Let’s do try to be positive about some things. It was a fun game to watch and Carolina never gave up, again when they had the chance and were down 8 or 9 points. Danny wanted some tough games and he stepped up. Now, for the other guys to step up a bit more with him.
One other thing that I’ve wondered about this team is, who is the team leader on the floor…I’d probably gravitate toward Ginyard last year, but without him, it is clear there is a void.
I’m still a bit concerned about Lawson and maybe it’s because I keep comparing him with Felton, the reason being is with Felton, you never had to be concerned about whether he’d “bring it” every game, he just did, and he lead that team both vocally and with his play. Maybe I’m expecting a bit too much from Lawson, but recently I feel concerned going into each game as to whether he’ll be ready to play…at this point, I would settle for a motivated Lawson who leads the team with his play…
Here’s hoping we get to watch the Carolina team that played in Ford Field going forward…
A few more comments in response to the above:
1. Ellington was a tremendous high school basketball player. He is now the Emperor wearing no clothes. We refuse to see that he is mediocre at best. He is capable of a great game (Clemson last year) but is not a great college player.
2. Danny has the most guts to play on the team after Hansbrough but also is a mediocre talent. The NBA is not drooling.
3. Lawson has at the very least 2 point guards who are better than him in the ACC….how many more remains to be seen. The NBA is not drooling.
4. Tyler Hansbrough can’t do it all. He is a great player and will have a long durable career in the NBA.
5. The Deon/Davis position has to pick it up.
6. We need better practice players……choosing 4-5 political picks who have good grades and average basketball talent doesn’t get it.
night all–good points Andy & william–if this ACC season isn’t the forging blast furnace, I don’t know what is…Johnny Cashs’ “boy named Sue” comes to mind.
rathskellar…I am merely suggesting an over-reaction to dropping an early season contest or two.
Evidence…no i don’t have any yet, so please stop asking for it. I don’t see them in practice, so I can’t speak as to what will happen. My evidence comes from the body of work of a senior class that has come in and done everything a UNC fan could hope for, except win the national title. Which I BELIEVE that can still be done. This team can and has played at a very high level…maybe a good challenge is what they need to get kcik-started and ESPN can stop drooling over how well Tyler “listens”.
TxTarheel – You’re right about what this team has accomplished before. I also think that with Wake Forest’s play and Duke’s improvement, the ACC is a stronger conference than what they’ve faced before. I think they can win it all, but I think the problem that needs to be fixed is the backcourt. Maybe they need to go to a three guard set when Lawson is playing a tough matchup. But that’s what I’m looking for a solution for so we don’t have a repeat of last year’s Final Four embarassment.
You are killing me 52BGJ. That was a nice reference from the past!!