Let’s be clear about something. There are members of every fan base who consider it perfectly acceptable to treat the players and coaches for which they root as though they were 2nd class citizens. Among these folks there is no loyalty per se to the players but only to the uniforms. Their attitude is very much a “what have you done for me lately” one. I find this completely detestable. This is why bloggers and the new media in general is held in such contempt because any blowhard with a keyboard can get online and say things they would never say in person. Many of these individuals are people who have no idea what it is like the undertake the commitment these players have taken. Some of these folks spent the better part of their college years having fun never having to juggle going to class, going to practice and being in a very bright spotlight from Octobet to April.
This blog represents intelligent and thoughtful discussions of Tar Heel basketball. For my part I will have my share of opinions and criticisms. Heck I might refer to a player’s play as being “soft” at times or lacking a certain toughness in certain situations but when I do so it will be on the basis of observation and presented in a constriuctive manner not in an way the dinigrates the player. The fact of the matter is UNC wins and loses as a team. Yes we can all point to poor or great play by individuals but at the end of the day a team wins or loses together. When UNC lost to Boston College it was not the fault of Ty Lawson or Danny Green alone. Everyone wearing white and blue that night had a hand in what went on. When Wake Forest took down the Heels, Deon Thompson or Tyler Hansbrough were not the only players who failed to do their job that night, the whole team came up short. No one player has a perfect game but taken together they can have an oustanding performance. Every player on the court will make mistakes and in the hypercritical atmosphere of anonymous message boards those mistakes are maginified and even used to define a player despite what other things they may have done right.
There is a time and place for proper criticism. The main issue with most of the internet criticism is it is based on so little information. That was the crux of Roy Williams’ response to a caller Monday night who called Deon Thompson soft and said Ed Davis should start. Roy said:
“Nobody’s with my team, except Roy Williams, Joe Holladay, Steve Robinson and C.B. McGrath. Everybody can sit in their insurance office or the pharmacy or the mortgage association group or they can sit anywhere the dickens where they want to sit, but they haven’t been with my team. So don’t be calling me saying who the [heck] should be starting and who shouldn’t be starting. I’m not mad about it. I’m really not made about it, but it is senseless…
“If you’re not with someone’s team, you have no idea what’s going on. I’m being serious, and I’m not mad about it. I ask questions myself when I’m watching [games], but the fact of the matter is that the greatest example is Marvin Williams and Jawad Williams. We had two good players. If I had started Marvin Williams and brought Jawad off the bench, I don’t think it would have been as effective. And right now, we’ve got two guys – one’s averaging 7.7 rebounds a game, and the other one is averaging 6.7 rebounds a game. And they’re not doing bad…
“Coach [Bill] Guthridge had that saying one time, ‘Do not condemn thy neighbor unless you’ve walked in his moccasins for two full moons.’ And in coaching, what that means is don’t criticize and don’t question because you’re not there every day. You don’t see the things that I see. You don’t see a mistake that Deon makes or a mistake that Ed makes.
“It’s fine to be a fan. I have no problems there, but I learned from the best guy that ever coached in Dean Smith and he has not asked me one question yet about my substitutions in five years, so I don’t care what anybody else says.”
While some might think Roy is overreacting, I tend to think he is mostly right. Fans don’t see what the coaches see. Fan’s don’t have the insight and knowledge as a coach to understand how things work. Fans take 40 minutes of game time as their only evidence of a player’s performance. Fans use simplistic standards and observations that do not benefit from repeated film study. As Roy said coaches are with the players and he also pointed out, Roy does not make these decisions with input and can avail himself of Dean Smith anytime he wants. That does not mean Roy cannot be wrong, stubborn or generally cling to the wrong strategy. What it does mean is the opinion rendered by we, the fans, has very little value given how little we actually know.
Anyway, I will step down off the soap box and implore all Tar Heel fans to take a high road when talking about the players and coaches. The purpose of this blog has always been to provide a place for open discussion which is rational and pays proper respect to the players themselves and with the help of you the readers it can continue to be that.
![[Bloglines]](http://www.tarheelblog.com/wp-content/plugins/bookmarkify/bloglines.png)
![[del.icio.us]](http://www.tarheelblog.com/wp-content/plugins/bookmarkify/delicious.png)
![[Digg]](http://www.tarheelblog.com/wp-content/plugins/bookmarkify/digg.png)
![[Facebook]](http://www.tarheelblog.com/wp-content/plugins/bookmarkify/facebook.png)
![[MySpace]](http://www.tarheelblog.com/wp-content/plugins/bookmarkify/myspace.png)
![[Technorati]](http://www.tarheelblog.com/wp-content/plugins/bookmarkify/technorati.png)
![[Windows Live]](http://www.tarheelblog.com/wp-content/plugins/bookmarkify/windowslive.png)
![[Yahoo!]](http://www.tarheelblog.com/wp-content/plugins/bookmarkify/yahoo.png)
![[Email]](http://www.tarheelblog.com/wp-content/plugins/bookmarkify/email.png)
Well, to me I appreciate it if you feel it is necessary to “edit or delete” posts that are too negative or insulting. I guess you do already……if I want to get upset I’ll go somewhere else and listen to (read actually) the trash that is out there. This has been my safe haven to debate the issues with my friends and like thinking individuals, and I cherish it. Disagreements here are fairly debated with a respect for each other. Thanks for this GREAT forum THF and friends.
Hopefully this relates to the topic as I think we all have some admiration for the Carolina family, even tho we have opinions about performance.
I’m a Roy Williams fan to a fault. I’ll question what players do, but not what Roy does. You don’t get to be the winningest active coach (percentage wise) without knowing what the heck you’re doing. In fact, when I hear any fan criticize Roy (or any other hall of fame coach) about the way he coaches, I immediately tune them out. Maybe I’m naive, but that’s the way I see it.
I agree with Roy generally, but I also feel that he is overly defensive about this point.
Criminal defense lawyers have similar disagreements over tactics, but the questioning makes all of us sharper and just because someone didn’t go to law school and just because they don’t know 100% of the facts about the case, doesn’t mean they might not see something the lawyer overlooked. Even Dean sort of admits he should have called time-out against Marquette back in 1977.
Frank McGuire always believed that the players won games much more than the coaches, and there is a lot to that, so I think you have to take Roy Williams’ winning percentage with a grain of salt. I say that as someone who believes Roy may rank above Dean Smith as a college coach.
I agree with THF 100% about his goals for this site. I started coming here after DaveSez packed it in. That site was ACC-oriented, which gave it some good aspects. It meant people tended to argue with statistics and they all had an appreciation for some of the great things accomplished by different programs in our conference. THF shares many of those aspects, which is a real tribute for a site focused mainly on one school.
Once in a while, I enjoy poking fun at Duke and I understand that I no longer live in North Carolina, so I don’t get zinged by neighbors about the Heels, but basically, I don’t enjoy denigrating our opponents. The thing that makes me happiest is seeing a really well-played game where Carolina wins and so I tend not to get all caught up in comebacks like the FSU game. I was actually kind of upset that we needed a comeback.
I am interested in learning about what makes Carolina successful and seeing the guys work together and grow, and achieve playing beautiful basketball. I would encourage any of you out there who come to the site to get a screen name and start contributing.
The ACC race this year has been exciting and very unpredictable. Youth and nervous emotion have been on display for EVERY team that has led the polls from the ACC and this is likely to continue. The crushing blow that Clemson just inflicted on Duke is not unlike what Tyler Hansbrough felt when he played the Clemson inside attack. You have to remember that these are college students and prone to ups and downs as well as loss of confidence.
The rest of the conference race is going to be like many other years with lots of hard fought, close games. I hope that CLemson gets some recognition for their success and that Wake Forest rebounds as well. Every team, including UNC benifits when the league battles this way. These spectacles on television across the country are very good for the whole conference. Sure they are hard on the players and coaches. But the fans should recognize these efforts and not find so much wrong with the players (or coaches).
There are certainly several players on the UNC team who have led in diffrent ways this year so far. It will be great fun to see where they go! I sure wish I could see one of these games in person this year. Sadly I am not going to see Hansbrough play in person. But seeing him on TV is hard to beat. He is a unique player who has been physically assaulted this season by most teams with the big guys to pound him; and they have been getting away with it for the last month or so. But he keeps getting up, wearing his mouth guard and sticking his head in for more.
One thing I’ve always enjoyed about true Carolina fans is they only criticize the performance, not the person. We know our guys work really hard, we know they do it the right way because of the strong leadership at the top, and that’s what makes being a fan of this program such a joy (and what makes beating us so satisfying for others).
Another thing I like about most Carolina fans, and the give-and-take here, is that we often see our players through those light-blue glasses. We think Deon shouldn’t just be a solid player, we feel he’s better than that and should be playing at an All-ACC level. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with wanting and hoping the best out of one of “our” players as long as we keep it in perspective.
Finally, that takes some “cojones” to call up and tell Roy he should be starting someone else. Or maybe something else…
Great post, I think the “would you say this in person” standard is the best. Another way to get perspective is to watch/listen to fans tearing into their coaches and players – NCSU football post game radio after a tough loss has always been quality, I listened to an hour of it driving home from the zoo with kids after the last Bunting victory over state. It’s easy to get caught up in your emotions when you are so close to a program.Review our content on Green’s nba effort last year, not ugly but still bad.
for myself, I am not a basketball expert and I enjoy trying to understand what is going on with the team I love by discussing it with you all. there is so much to think about between the games and what is going on with the players that I really don’t have the inclination to bad-mouth the people on out team. if I felt that way, i’d just stop watching.
Thanks again for a great site, analysis and the high standards. I am pretty excited about football in the middle of bb season, that’s a new feeling for me. We have a great group of coaches and players across the board.
Go Heels!
Good point, Minny. The Washington Post noted that last week no one phoned in to the Dave Leitao show. Ultimately, it still is about the fans(students) as well as the players and coaches and Roy should remember that, even though it may be frustrating when people ask him why he won’t play zone.
If zone was good enough for Frank McGuire and Dean Smith, why isn’t it good enough for you, Roy? I think he can answer that question without getting quite so huffy all the time.
I know they practice a lot, but it is kind of funny, though if you read Wes Miller’s book, to see what he considered a challenging course load. I knew a lot of people who used to take 18 and 21 hours per semester.
Of course I did not mention the most asinine criticism on the message boards. People actually start threads questioning and criticizing UNC sports medicine and the surgeons who worked on Ginyard’s foot. Un-freaking-believable. Like these bozos know anything about Ginyard’s condition, his foot or what the doctors did to treat it.
william,
Part of the problem is Roy hates doing the show so I think his mood is lacking a certain patience. On Monday in particular the team had a bad practice and he appeared to not be in a good mood.
I know. I just hope he doesn’t turn into the grumpy old man from Saturday night live back in the late 80′s. The time to get concerned is when apathy is so great that no one bothers to even call your show at UVa, a program that had two Final Fours and several number one rankings under Terry Holland.
I’m a North Carolina fan through and through, and I have a tendency to be a little too critical when I watch UNC. I realize that I have to sit back and enjoy the games as a fan, and try not to be so analytical about what’s happening.
This reminds me of a saying that I once heard a very succesful girls’ basketball coach told me when I played in a pickup game with him. To paraphrase, he told me that basketball is a game where mistakes are GUARANTEED to happen, and the key is to minimize those mistakes. He told me he couldn’t think of a team at any level that has played an absolute perfect game. If that were the case, then your opponent would shoot 0% and you would shoot 100%.
I guess what I’m saying is that I’ll focus more on trying to be more of a fan rather than breaking down the game so much. I’ll admit I’m guilty of criticizing what I may think is bad play, but I need to get over it because I don’t think Dick Baddour will be calling me with any job offers soon.
Thanks very much for this post. It reminds me back in 2000 when my sweet father almost got in a fist fight at the Dean Dome when some jerks yelled at the team “You have no heart.” My dad responded, correctly IMO, “They’re just kids, leave them alone,” which the other dudes did not take kindly too. I think that is also an important thing to remember–these are just very talented young people who are prone to do mercurial things on the court–not from lack of desire but sometimes from lack of focus or just a bad case of being 20 years old.
My feeling of being a Carolina fan is that when they win or lose I am happy or sad for myself but I also try to think of how the actual players and coaching staff must feel. Watching the team pile on Ty after his running 3 pointer gave me such a great feeling and seeing the dissapointment in everyone’s eyes after Kansas broke my heart. I think empathy is such a key component of being a Carolina fan.
The state of North Carolina and its love for basketball is something very special and probably only exceeded in a few states like Indiana, Kentucky and Kansas.
But in my opinion the state of North Carolina has its love for basketball calibrated almost perfectly. Fans love the sport, but not quite to the excesses that you see in Kentucky and Kansas, with the mistreatment of the coaches and vitriol that you saw when Tubby and Roy (or Self a couple of times) had unexpected NCAA losses.
Honestly, here in Maryland, for all the talk of the the Turtle, I thought that the celebrations for the Terps’ national title in 2002 were far too low key. I will never forget UNC winning in 1982 and what a big deal it was, probably still, the sports highlight of my lifetime.
There have been articles written about how Roy doesn’t like the call-in shows because it takes valuable time away from other prep work and you’re open to criticism/comments from people who have never coached a college game. The mighty K does a satellite radio show where he interviews others, but he doesn’t do a call-in show himself. I say leave the coaching decisions to the professionals, and remember that “fan” is short for “fanatic.”
I am definitely a “fanatic” when it comes to the Heels. I expect that I’ve shaved 10 years off of my life due to watching them play (or at least when they play poorly). But, who needs 10 more years if you can’t be a true Tar Heel, right?
Well, UNC has already basically stopped playing in other venues around the state, which I think is a mistake. They used to play several games a year in Charlotte and several games a year in Greensboro. This is the basketball team from the main campus of the UNC system and I hope that people all over the state will continue to feel that it belongs to them.
Hopefully, it is not too much for the head coach from the hills of Asheville to answer a few phone calls from people around the state who may now have little opportunity to see the Tar Heels in person. I think those shows are actually pretty lucrative for coaches.
Also, how is answering questions about strategy leaving the decisions up to others? If done right, answering these questions provides education about the Roy Williams system and why he believes it is the best way to play basketball. I know there are many people on this site who feel that Roy is an excellent coach but who believe that he is actually less adaptive than Dean Smith.