So let’s delve into what Tuesday’s announcement of Marcus Ginyard’s redshirt and Will Graves’ suspension means.
Marcus Ginyard
Why is he being redshirted?
The bottom line is Ginyard is still injured. According to Ginyard himself, there is pain in the foot when he moves laterally and it was clear he would be 100% this season. He considered it “cheating his teammates” to play with the pain if it meant he would not be fully effective. Given his greatest value is on defense, especially against fast perimeter players, Ginyard not being able to move laterally is a dealbreaker.
Impact on this season?
In my opinion it has already been felt, this just squashes any hope Ginyard would return to give them a boost in the NCAA Tournament. Even then given the amount of time needed to get Ginyard back to form, questions would abound over whether he could really be effective. So we can speculate as to how much he will be missed but we also have no idea if Ginyard would have gotten back to full form. The only thing this annoucement does is signal to the rest of the team they have to dig deep and find something in their game they may not have realized was there. For Wayne Ellington, Danny Green, Ty Lawson and Bobby Frasor it will be imperative they raise their game on the defensive end another notch. Granted they should have been doing that already but now there is no other choice. Either bring it or the Heels will not see Detroit.
Impact on next season?
The proverbial silver lining. Assuming Lawson and Ellington leave(worst case scenario) Ginyard gives you a senior leader to shepard a young team. UNC has five talented freshmen coming in which will bolster the roster. Alongside Deon Thompson, Ed Davis, Larry Drew and Tyler Zeller, the Heels will probably not be a title favorite but definitely in the conversation. The only issue this team will have is who will be the wing shooter if Ellington does go to the NBA. Dexter Strickland will come in as the highest rated SG and could fill the roll as Larry Drew’s backcourt mate with Ginyard at SF, Tyler Zeller at center and either Ed Davis or Deon Thompson or even John Henson at PF. Henson is supposedly a Kevin Durant type versatile player which makes gives Roy some options on the lineup. Add the Wear Twins and freshman Leslie McDonald(another Ginyard type player) there is depth, albeit it young. Larry Drew also needs to improve to be able to command this team on the floor. With all that in mind, having Ginyard along with Thompson gives a young team some much needed veteran leadership. And with Ginyard you get a quality defender back.
Will Graves
Why was he suspended?
Anyone’s guess. The official statement is failing to meet “the standard expected of a Tar Heel player.” That really could be anything from skipping class to smoking pot to a general attitude problem. What is odd about it is no one saw this coming. The message boards usually get a whiff of an issue like this but it came out of the blue last night five minutes after the game ended. Based on the comments Roy made the decision came in the last 48 hours and he expects Graves will be a part of the team next season though that in itself will be evaluated.
Impact on this season?
Much like the Ginyard situation, not having Graves has been factored in with the exception of the depth issue. UNC is now very thin in the backcourt. If Danny Green gets in foul trouble, which he is prone to do, Roy would either have to go small with a three guard offense of Lawson, Ellington and Frasor or he goes big with Ed Davis or Mike Copeland at SF. Graves was bringing very little to the table on either end of the floor. It would have been nice to see Graves come off the bench for about two threes and 10 points per game. That was not happening so his value had everything to do with depth and very little in the way of production otherwise. His loss, like Ginyard has been factored in. The question is whether this team now has enough. Only if the rest of the players raise their game.
Impact on next season?
Assuming Graves returns and can find his jumpshot he could be a key contributor off the bench. Heck, if he gets his head on straight, figures out how to play defense and shoots the ball he could be the 2nd coming of Danny Green from 2008. I think whether or not that happens is completely on the young man’s shoulders. I do know Roy and the coaching staff are a supportive bunch and what we may be witnessing is some brand of tough love in hopes Graves can ultimately becomes a better player and person. That is why he remains with the team and still will be a part of practice. We can only hope this is a moment that will be the subject of an amazing story when Graves is a key part to a Final Four run in either(or both) of the next two seasons.
The X Factor
The question now is what happens with Tyler Zeller? Roy said Zeller would see the doctor on Wednesday and a determination would be made concerning his status. At that point Roy planned to discuss it with Zeller and his parents to see if he wanted to play this season.
My gut feeling: Zeller is coming back.
I believe Roy when he says there is no colleration between what happens with Zeller and the other two players. I also think Roy will leave the decision up to Zeller and his parents. That being said, I think Zeller is going to make the choice to come back and help his team assuming his health permits it.
However, getting Zeller back only mitigates some of the problem. Zeller will provide some depth, a big body down low and may be an upgrade to the general way UNC defends and rebounds on the interior. Getting Zeller does nothing when it comes to perimeter defense which is where Ginyard would have helped. In short Zeller’s return would be helpful but there are still some gaps that the backcourt/wing contingent are going to have to work hard to cover own their own.
This team can still win the national title and if they catch some nice breaks in terms of seeding as well as a bad night or two by an opponent, then things could work out. You must never underestimate an experienced team in the NCAA Tournament nor the oft mocked will of Tyler Hansbrough. Winning it all is why Hansbrough return and I still believe that regardless of the other things they may have gone wrong there is a good chance Hansbrough takes this team on his back come tournament time. If he does that with Lawson, Ellington and Green playing their best basketball of the season, UNC can finish the job.
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“This team can still win the national title and if they catch some nice breaks in terms of seeding as well as a bad night or two by an opponent, then things could work out.”
I disagree with the last part of this statement. UNC doesn’t need breaks in seeding or an opponents off night. This team is 20-2, on track for a number 1 seed, and has shown flashes of being unbeatable. This team has essentially lost nothing since the start of the year, so not getting Ginyard or Zeller back and losing Graves is really pretty irrelevant, IMO.
All UNC needs to do is play their game, period.
Poorly phrased on my part.
I am saying those things would be helpful just in case some of the bugaboos jump up but then again you sort of hope you get good seeding and some off nights from your opponents anyway.
Gotcha.
I still think Ginyard was of most importance. This team can show it can have an off night, but for some reason, I feel as if those off-nights will come in ACC play and not out-of-conference games.
I am also very optimistic about next year’s squad. Henson can play multiple positions, and I have no clue where he will wind up being. Thompson, and the coaches desire to start him, leaves me wondering. I would think that having Zeller, Davis, and Thompson, along with Henson’s ablility to drain 3′s, he might share some time between PF and Small. Our point guard play right now is what I am curious about. We will have a quick team in the half court next year (based on the quality and play of our freshmen that are in HS right now). Drew has made some great half-court setting passes this season. Strickland is a good 3 point threat as well. I think we will be considered a top 5 team at the start of next season, and IF we get Ellington back, I have to figure that will come to fruition as the season plays out.
I hope Ellington does not come back…
When we were initially ranked #1, it was with the assumption of having Zeller and eventually getting Ginyard back in December. Without Ginyard, we looked foolish against big time scorers like Teague (WF) and Rice (BC). If Roy doesn’t learn how to teach defense, which won’t happen, then we will have to rely upon scoring more points than the other team. Against terrible teams like Maryland, that will work. However, if we play a team with a legitimate scoring threat, and decent defense we could be in huge trouble, especially if we get cold. I definitely think we can win the championship with our first five, but if we hit foul trouble it might be over. I think two keys that could put us over the edge would be getting Zeller back, and hoping that Bobby gets some confidence and remembers how to shoot. With minimal production off the bench, we have done quite well this year! Imagine if we had production from Zeller, Davis, and Bobby off the bench.
THF — A thorough and thoughtful post, as amended in the way C.Michael suggested.
The bottom line is that very little has changed. We are 20-2 essentially without Ginyard, and with Graves contributing very little (indeed, of late, being a minus).
As I was saying on a prior thread, the defense off the bench is now going to have to come principally from Frasor. He lacks the native quickness, but he partly compensates for it by court sense, anticipation and desire. I would start giving him 15 or maybe more minutes a game. In order to justify that, he’s going to have to improve his shooting as well. But I have great faith in the kid. None of us should forget the outstanding job he did as a freshman point guard replacing the fabulous Raymond Felton. Of course he’s not Felton; indeed he’s not even Ginyard, but he’s what we have.
Drew just isn’t ready. He’s an acceptable sub, and he might well improve next year, but that’s about all we can reasonably expect.
Finally, this could be Copeland’s big (and last) chance. He’s always had a good basketball body. Maybe he’s just not that talented, or maybe it’s been the nagging injuries, but now could be his moment to inherit Graves’ minutes. Copeland will never be a key player, but basketball like politics is the art of the possible, and what’s possible for him is to do, at least on defense, what Graves failed to do.
If Zeller were to come back, we’d be 9 deep, with 4 frontcourt players, 3 wings, and 2 point guards. In case of an emergency with a wing (such as Danny foul trouble), Roy might be able to move Hansbrough to the 3. The other options are playing Drew on the wing (unlikely) or possibly Justin Watts (also unlikely).
I really can’t believe we lost two of our wings in one night.
C. Michael, I guess your implying that he will leave because we will do so much damage in the NCAA tourney!
THF, I agree with you completely about Marcus’s role next year. He could be the David Noel for a very young team. I believe Roy when he says the decision on Tyler Z. has nothing to do with Ginyard and Graves, but I think it must be on Z’s mind. Giving up a redshirt season, he could get some experience this year playing with Hansbrough, Lawson, Green, etc., then still play three years (unless he goes pro) and still get his degree.
“Either bring it or the Heels will not see Detroit.”
I disagree, I think the Heels can get to Detroit without their A game. This team will beat 95% of college basketball teams on a neutral site with their B game and that is part of the problem. So when you show up against a team like BC and play your B game or play the 2nd half of the FSU game with your B game, and BC and FSU get hot or play above their level you lose or should lose.
Things come too easy for this team most of the time and when things get tough there hasn’t been that one vocal leader or dominate personality that has righted the ship on the fly.
If Tyler wants to put this team on his back for a championship, I would think he would do that be not only grabbing more rebounds, seriously what has happened to TH rebounding this year, but by driving fear in his teammates that they better put it on the line to win a championship or answer to him. Also know as: the George Lynch effect.
That is what this team is missing, hopefully this adversity will help them find that extra desire to do the little things better. They found it last year with all the injuries, hopefully they can do it again this year. For Christ sake, they are 20-2 and still the favorite to win it all. Ginyard is a big loss, but it’s not a deal breaker. Losing Lawson or TH would be a deal breaker. The Defense does not have to be great and it never will be, just good enough.
And can someone please find Deon Thompson’s nuts; he lost them sometime after Christmas. Maybe we should all chip in and get him a pair of neuticles.
There is a good chance UNC ends up as a #1 seed with someone like Pitt as the #2. I don’t think they can beat a team like Pitt or Oklahoma without their A game. I do see your point though, that might end up being the first game in the tournament they need their A game.
I have a strong feeling Zeller will go ahead and play. He’ll get some valuable experience and playing time coming down the ACC stretch, could play up to 17 more games if we get hot (this may be his best chance to play on a national championship team), and will be much more ready coming out of the gate next year. Plus I think he can make a very positive contribution. We have seen so little of him to this point, but I get the feeling he is a fundamentally sound player with a good head on his shoulders. And he’s tall. And he runs the floor well….. Did I leave the impression that I’m a Zeller fan?
Frasor was okay as a freshman. Of course expectations were very low that year and he split time with Wes Miller and Quentin Thomas to some extent. The problem is not how he performed in 2006; the problem is that he was just okay that year and now he is a senior. Look at the improvement by Danny Green, who was the least heralded of that class in terms of freshman playing time. If he plays like he did yesterday, at least he can be a positive. I mean Scott Cherry contributed back in 1993 to the national title by giving us some minutes down the stretch against Michigan.
With respect to Zeller playing again, based upon what, a seance? I haven’t heard anything that makes me believe that he will play again this year.
JB,
Bingo!
Can we do it without Graves? Yes.
Can we do it without Marcus? Probably.
Can we do it without Zeller? We may not have to.
Will Zeller come back? I think so.
Will we miss the defensive production that Graves and Marcus brought? If the MD game was any omen, yes.
Do we need our A game? Sometimes.
Can we beat teams like Pitt/UConn? Not without atleast our A- Game.
Will we win it all even without Marcus, Graves and possibly Zeller? That remains to be seen!
I doubt Tyler Hansbrough will ever be a vocal leader on the court. He’s a lead by example kind of guy, and that should be enough for this team. I also think his rebounding has suffered because Ed and Deon have been getting a lot of those boards. Wayne, Danny, and Ty are all averaging about the same number of boards this year as last, but Deon is getting 2 more a game and Ed is a better rebounder than Marcus was last year. I know we had Stephenson last year, but I think overall the better rebounding by Deon and Ed are to “blame”. Also keep in mind that Tyler is averaging ~29 minutes/game, whereas last year he averaged 33.
Do we really need to make reference to our players’ genitals to critique them? If you think some individual player lacks courage and that this point needs to be explored, then at least maybe give us some examples or provides some statistics to back up the point.
Honestly, though I am not sure that saying that UNC Player X lacks courage is really edifying to anyone, nor does it promote UNC basketball or our knowledge or understanding of basketball.
I agree, william. Doesn’t make sense to me, either.
“Player X is spineless/gutless/heartless,” has become code in my book for, “I really have no clue what I’m talking about, but if I type this it will make me seem like a winner who has never struggled at anything.”
I, for some reason, am just not that optimistic about us getting a number one seed without either winning the regular season ACC, or winning the ACC tournament. We have 3 teams pretty much deadlocked at the moment, and I would think that you’d have to come to the conclusion that only 1 ACC team will get that 3 number one seed. If we get two, then we are still in the same boat with hopes that either Duke or Wake choke on a couple of their games. I am not trying to be pessimistic or even argue, but show me how we get that number one seed without one of those two criteria I mentioned earlier being met.
I don’t think it matters except for the fact that UNC has never won it all without being a number one seed, which may end up being sort of circular.
What I mean is that I don’t think the actual road to winning is all that much harder for a number two seed, but it is hard for me to remember many number two seeds winning it all. Most years, it does seem to be a number one seed that takes the title. This is more likely due to the fact that the top four seeds do in fact tend to contain the top seed in the country, than anything else.
Thus, if Carolina ends up being a questionable number one seed (unlike for example 1982, 1993, 1998, 2005 or 2008), you probably want to worry more because this might in fact mean that we are not the top team than worry about the difficulty of a number two seed versus a number one. Or, are you just worried about tickets and venue?
Here are some statistics to back up the point:
Thompson vs Non-Conference opponents:
Pts/game = 14.1
Rbs/game = 6.7
Pts/min = 0.55
Rbs/min = 0.26
Thompson vs Conference opponents:
Pts/game = 7.3
Rbs/game = 6.5
Pts/min = 0.03
Rbs/min = 0.25
Thompson prior to Christmas:
Pts/game = 15.1
Rbs/game = 7.5
Pts/min = 0.56
Rbs/min = 0.28
Thompson after to Christmas:
Pts/game = 8.1
Rbs/game = 5.8
Pts/min = 0.02
Rbs/min = 0.23
I apologize from these numbers we should be given Deon the old “that’a boy keep up the good work”. If you haven’t observed how soft Deon has played then you’re in denial. I am from the school of thought that everyone needs a kick in the ****** sometime not the “tree hugger” school of thought of just give everyone a hug and tell them how great they are. Maybe we should stop keeping stats and box scores so Deon won’t get his feelings hurt when he realizes how bad he’s been playing the last month and a half.
The point is I would rather we not insult the players or discuss the whereabouts of their genitalia. If you have a point to make based on the facts then make it, otherwise drop the cheap shots at the players.
Everyone here is aware of the problems Deon seems to have hold onto the ball and being strong in the post. No one is in denial of that, we are just not willing to talk about in those terms and really do not have any idea what will get Deon on the right track.
Please everyone, remember there are ladies present.
I know Deon hasn’t been playing well but that is no reason to start hating on him. The poor guy is just going through a rough patch. I’m confident that he will get better as the season goes on.
The nasty talk is better written on IC. I come here for intelligent discussion. Deon basketball “style” is to be a finesese player, unlike Tyler who likes to bang. But he is a talented 20-year old athelete who is still learning the game. Give him a break.
This is kind of random but dook and Klesmon play tonight. Any thoughts?
Dook = Duke
Klesmon = what?
JB,
I think the ACC could easily get 2 #1 seeds, with the Big East getting the other two. Oklahoma could get one, but given their schedule, they basically need to win out.
Klesmon = Clemson
Bunnies are soft. Deon is a good basketball player who plays hard even when facing much stiffer competition in conference and after Christmas. It is juvenile to see a player struggle and then draw conclusions about his toughness or ‘heart’. Deon may not be all-acc or have the game that you’d like him to have but leave the soft comments at sfn or something.
Deon is a smart kid, he plays with heart. He might not be in the best place as far as basketball is concerned, but he is a Tar Heel and deserves our respect, period.
SD11, I think those are some interesting numbers. If you were to only slightly change your original remark, you would have a very interesting topic. And I am not saying that I never err in the is regard, but you could have made almost the exact point in a nicer way:
“SD11: I have compiled some statistics on Deon Thompson, both in and out of conference and also both pre and post Dec. 11 and I do think it raises an interesting question about his play. Something has changed and I wonder if it could be:
A. Lack of rest?
B. Nerves?
C. Competition with Davis for starter?”
So, even though I find your numbers interesting, how do we know Deon doesn’t have some lingering undisclosed injury or any number of issues? I think you can let statistics speak for themselves in a sense but when one tries to get to the conclusion, sometimes you have to accept that the answers may in a sense be unknowable.
Let’s also remember that Deon has, at times, had great games against top competition, like the game at Arizona a couple of years ago, where Ginyard and B. Wright were sick. He also had a pretty good game against G-town.
Also, let’s remember that these are college kids that must of us feel a connection to, either as alumni or North Carolinians or whatever. Deon’s play helps raise money for the school and hopefully brings us all together. He isn’t a pro yet, so I think we should mute what may be legitimate criticism, say for an NBA guy, somewhat.
No one has to remind Deon how ineffectively he’s been shooting in ACC competition; he knows it full well. And maybe he does need to be a bit more assertive in establishing position and working for his shots. But, as has been said, he’s not a power player, and even players like Hansbrough get shut down from time to time (think Wake Forest). His main role is to rebound, set good screens and make good passes, play D, and shoot when he’s open. And I’m sure coach Williams has far fewer issues with Deon’s overall effort than some of his armchair critics.
Here is Deon Thompson’s line from the Georgetown game in 2007 and 7’2″ Roy Hibbert to go to the Final Four:
21 min 6-7 FG 2-2 FT 6 reb 1 stl 2 blk 14 pts
This is an amazing stat line for a freshman who only played 21 minutes. Not one single other Tar Heel shot over fifty percent from the floor during this game. The team shot .352 as a whole. Where we would have been without Deon? Certainly not in overtime.
My issue isn’t with Thompson’s stats or scoring average or %…it comes down to hustle and effort, and as Coach Williams is prone to say, ANYBODY can hustle and give effort and those are things he shouldn’t have to coach.
Ed Davis is clearly a less polished player than Thompson is, but I think many appreciate him because he seems to work hard and show some fire in his belly, which is what Thompson seems to lack…shots not falling and an errant pass here and there are a part of the game and can (and do) happen to anybody. There’s no excuse for not hustling, blocking out, and scrapping with some heart when other things aren’t working for you–the least talented guy on the team can do that, so why shouldn’t we expect that of our starters?
This being said, Thompson clearly deserves the right to start if for no other reason than Coach Williams says so…and he knows infinitely more about basketball than I do.
uncgirl — Just to lighten things up: I believe the Daily Tar Heel is reporting that Hansbrough is NOT engaged.
You’re still in the game! Go for it!
As to Thompson, we need him to step up. This is no surprise to anyone, so there’s no need to hammer on him about it. No one here is “hugging” failure or non-performance. The big thing with him is to learn how to share the space with TH.
I don’t think it’s about “guts” or all that stuff, but even if it were, I can only say that I wish I had the guts these guys have to show every game. All of them, including Thompson, get hammered in ways that would knock me silly, and would have even when I was younger and more athletic. They risk injury every time out. I am not a bit satisfied with the way Thompson has fallen off his early season promise, but I have neither the standing nor the facts to criticize his “guts.”
I would want to make sure that I am not confusing playing style with hustle. There are guys who look like they are hustling more than other guys, when what they are actually doing is wasting energy. Some players also have body mannerisms that make them appear to be hustling more than others.
Some kids, like Deon, have a loping or laid-back running style, or breathing pattern, that makes them look like they are not going all out, when that may not be the case.
Neither Brad Daugherty nor Sam Perkins necessarily looked like he was going all out either, nor did Rashad McCants, Rick Fox or B. Wright. Jabbar for the Lakers never did either, while Bill Russell for the Celtics and Moses Malone for the 76′ers always looked like they were out of breath, but nobody ever accused them of not hustling at least.
Worthy and Jordan and Marvin Williams always appeared (which should be in italics) as though they were going all out, but I doubt that they hustled anymore than Perkins or Daugherty. Usain Bolt didn’t look like he was hustling all that much last September to me, by the way.
Wake is in trouble again.
http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/9179296/Eight-weaknesses-Tar-Heels-must-deal-with
Interesting take from Goodman, well from whichever coaches he talked too. Some of the assertions were flat wrong. I think the players have been very unselfish and the fact the assist totals for the team are higher this season seems to support that. I also think BC which will be 6-3 in the ACC after tonight are very close to an NCAA bid so that loss is looking less and less problematic to me.
Wake is getting throttled.
Wake is fake.
Weren’t people saying that UNC would be hard pressed to catch Wake Forest after being two games back in the loss column?
We can hope Duke is puke tonight
UNC got what it needed with Wake losing. Now the Heels control their own destiny.
Yeah and Goodman, UConn lost to Georgetown at home. They might be in the NIT as well. You are almost always relatively more likely to lose to conference foes, because they know far better how to play you. Analysts routinely forget this. NIT champ South Carolina played Florida three times in 2006 and beat them once and the other two went to the wire. Had they played again, it probably would have gone down to the wire, but USC would have likely lost in the first round of the NCAA tourney to some team that they didn’t know how to play.
This effect is strong. Not only are the coaches more prepared for conference foes, the players themselves have watched their conference opponents far more on television and know much more, who to foul and what moves certain guy likes. Compare that to Notre Dame playing Washington State in the tourney, whom few of us had ever even seen play much before.
I also see no evidence that this UNC team is worse than last year. Green’s improvement, along with Davis, give you more than you lose with Ginyard and Stepheson gone. The 2007 team was probably better if you don’t count experience but they were obviously very green.
But the team I hate is NC State….
Goodman comes from the Digger Phelps-Doug Gottlieb school of thought when it comes to UNC (minus the highlighters and credit card theft.)
Looks like UNC now officially controls their own destiny. Pretty similar to last year with Duke’s “insurmountable” lead…
Duke is not handling the Clemson press early on
Clemson is a bad matchup for Duke. Plus, you have to think CU wants to snap this losing streak to Duke… though I’m sure tehy said the same think about UNC 45 years ago…
Well Duke guards the perimeter well and Clemson is having trouble out there. I also don’t think Clemson has an answer for Henderson.
I agree. UNC is just as athletic. Has stronger guards, and will have DG on Henderson. I really think UNC matches up GREAT against Duke.
I agree. I don’t think Nolan Smith is that great. Paulus will have even more trouble with Lawson. The only thing that concerns me about Duke is if their three point shooting is on and if they effectively bother our perimeter game.
I wonder what Ellington’s stats for the last 7 games are?
19.7 ppg, 5.7 rpg, 50% FG and 46% 3P
Ellington (last 7):
19.7 ppg, 50.6% FG; 46.7% 3PT; 5.7 REB
Okay we got different numbers…wonder why?
Because I’m sleep deprived and can’t add!!
Yeah I miscalculated the 3P%
Okay and what were Hendersons?
About Lawson. He had two dreadful games this year and one dreadful game against Kansas, which caused some legitimate critiques. But throw out those BC and Wake games and he is basically off the boards statistically. Also we have now seen that Teague isn’t as great as we thought he was and that Rice is pretty good but better against us than he is against anyone else.
I think Pocius was a 4 star recruit and that guy almost never plays unless K is mad at his other players.
Duke players are sad/mad. Now they make show of yelling at each other in public so commentator can make a comment about how they keep each other charged up.
That is the phony kind of hustle/garbage that I hate. Pounding the floor just wastes energy. So does screaming at your teammates. Everybody thinks Duke hustles so much because they pound the floor and handcheck everybody.
Oglesby runs hot and cold with his brain on the court.
Clemson up 12 at the half.
Okay, I am laughing my you know what off watching Lance Thomas get all pissy in the Duke huddle.
Henderson: 20 ppg, 60% FG, 6 Reb. Clearly better than WE… (sarcasm)
Yeah, but Gerald is doing the tip-off isn’t he? That actually used to be a big deal in the NBA, by the way. Wilt was good for 4 extra possessions a game on the center tip.
Yeah, Oglesby was one of UNC’s best players in that first game last year and then he torched us in the second one, I think.
If Ellington can keep doing that consistently, then maybe UConn could stop UNC. I don’t think anyone else can. That puts the season back to step one, UNC and UConn.
Yes, he is. I can’t figure out if that is more of a condemnation of the Duke bigs, though.
As for Lawson, even with the Wake and BC games, he has 142 assists, 50 steals, and only 40 TOs. Those numbers are stunning.
I know and in the NBA they would be great. Unfortunately, in college ball, you can’t take a single game off in the NCAA tourney. It probably is good in a way. The Kansas, BC and Wake games should help keep his head from getting too big. Honestly, if Carolina had won the BC and Wake games, I think Lawson would be touted as the player of the year but he got a huge amount of negative press, particularly on defense for those games. The FSU game was important for him because it showed that he can perform under duress.
This current game could change in tone, but for all those Defense is Everything guys, Duke’s defense isn’t going to get it done when the offense can’t get the ball up the court, much less get a good shot.
So much for our quality win against Notre Dame. If Duke loses to Clemson and Miami, everyone will say that Carolina hasn’t beaten anyone good.
Lawson’s A/TO is 3.55. Toss out the BC and Wake games it is 4.0.
3.55 is 1.19 higher than it was last season. He is also averaging 2.3 steals per game which leads the ACC. In fact Lawson leads the ACC in steals and assists. He is 2nd in FG% which is remarkable in itself.
His free throws are great and his percentage on three pointers off screens or unguarded is fantastic (I know they don’t calculate this, but he makes a huge amount of them). If you had told me that he and Danny Green were going to improve as much as they have, I would have thought Carolina would definitely be undefeated.
But you know, the year the Lakers won 33 in a row, they lost 3 of 9 at one point and 4 of 6 at another point.
I’m glad UNC doesn’t go to Clemson this year. I still think they finish second in the ACC.
At present Duke is in a wee bit of trouble.
I honestly thought they were the second best in the pre-season. It is amazing how people lose perspective after losses, year after year. In 1991, I think it was, Carolina and State played on consecutive days and Carolina lost one and then torched State the next day. So, who was better?
Yup, and getting no calls, which should be music to the ears of most!
Booker is owning Duke right now.
Interesting that Booker was a non-factor against UNC, guarded mostly by Deon, BTW… and against Duke he looks like a man amongst boys.
UNC had a little trouble with their press but once they broke it a few times Clemson backed off of it and UNC took over.
Duke is getting smoked. Holy crap.
wow–haven’t seen Dook b’slapped like this in awhile
Paulus just got “Danny Greened” again!!!
Off-topic: LeBron is like nothing we’ve ever seen…
agreed–and could be a decent actor if he wanted to pull that off imo. isn’t his contract up after this season?
He’s signed through 2010.
To be 6-8 and do what he does is a just insane and I am not convinced he has the same deadly focus MJ had. Imagine if he did.
somebody is going to have to write a big check…
The article about him in SI this week was really good. The three things that jumped out at me were:
1: Generally accepted that his listed weight of 250 is a joke. 275 is more legit.
2: The 44″ vertical he measured pre-draft is about 10″ less than he gets going off one-leg. Think about that…
3: At the Olympics, he was taken by how hard and driven Kobe was, and apparently some of that has rubbed off on him. Scary.
good point THF–I don’t think we’ll ever see that again.
man—handled!
Really, truly, men against boys…
OH THE HUMANITY!
Did you see the look on Nolan Smith’s face when Booker went up for the dunk….I think that look was one of awe.
You guys are too young to remember Wilt.
it really is nice to see Duke getting somebody’s best shot!
Power ratings should have some changes. Could anyone beat UNC by 30 like Wake and Duke got it tonight?
I am too young for Wilt but I was laughing the other night when I found out uncgirl50 was about to start at UNC. That means she does not even remember Scott Williams much less Wilt.
I was just thinking about Scott Williams to try to find someone to compare Deon to. UNC really has not had that many 6’6″ to 6’8″ great players. Scott was a bit taller though.
Shaq and Kareem probably equaled Wilt as players, but as a pure beast of a man, I don’t know if there has ever been anyone like him. Shaq is the closest. Wilt could do anything better than anybody in the realm of sports. He was the fastest man on his teams until his knee injury late in his career. He led the league in rebounding 11 out of 13 years I believe. Rent the movie Conan.
Time-out, Duke. 27 seconds to play. This is so exciting. Duke is preparing for a 28 point comeback in 27 seconds! Singler almost makes a steal with four seconds to play, but Duke runs out of time and K races off the court with the kind of handshake you give someone who has just emerged from the men’s toilets.
Bilas usually does a better job of being unbiased. This was too much for even him to take. I guess Carolina does have enough time to catch up with Duke before the end of the regular season in the ACC!
You stay classy Singler.
After this game, I’m pretty glad we don’t play Clemson in Littlejohn this year.
So, we beat Clemson by 24, Clemson beats Dook by 27, so we beat Dook by 51, right? Unfortunately, I expect Dook will come out of this with a renewed focus/intensity. I expect we’ll get all we can handle in Durham, but I still think we’ll pull it off. I guarantee that if they call our game the way they called the game tonight, we win. Of course, in Cameron, I doubt it.
CM–check out LeBron’s post game pc tonight on SportsCenter if you can–pays appropriate homage to MJ.
I certainly didn’t think we couldn’t catch Dook/Wake for the ACC crown, but I assumed it would be more difficult with our early losses (esp. to Wake). I don’t think anyone here can honestly say they thought Wake would beat Dook, then lose to GT (???) and then get pounded by Miami, and then Dook would get pounded by Clemson. Things have certainly broken our way, but let us not forget that this coin has another side. It is only the halfway point, and we’ve got some damn tough games ahead.
Not as many as Duke does.
We have been beaten. But we have not been humiliated.
Dook just was.
We scored more in EACH HALF of our last game than Dook scored today.
This is why Dook isn’t going anywhere this year. They have some excellent athletes, but no inside power. You simply do not win championships without inside power.
Unfortunately, Oklahoma pulled it out, so we are stuck at No. 3. For the moment.
One more thing about this game. I think it costs Dook a No. 1 seed regardless of how successful they are from now on. When was the last time a team got a No. 1 seed after losing in the regular season by 27 points?
lol–whoever the 2nd tier dude doing the pg wrap on the Duke/Clemson game on ESPN is a bonafide hoot!
We all place too much importance on the result of any one game. Who knows, maybe UNC would have beaten Kansas 6 times out of ten last year. Check this out from 1991:
Wed, Feb 06 North-carolina
91 @ 97 North-carolina-state NC State
Thu, Feb 07 North-carolina
92
vs 70 North-carolina-state NC State
It is hard to get this formatting right, but these are scores from back to back UNC-State games played over two days due to the Gulf War postponement.
I don’t know who I thought Wake would lose to. I did know that they had played a really crummy early schedule and had struggled against a lot of mediocre teams. I also knew that Ish Smith was not really all that great. They seem to be going backward now that he is back.
You also need to discount rivalry games to a certain extent. Missouri usually plays Kansas tough and Wake usually plays UNC and Duke tough, regardless of the rankings. The game that did throw me was how Wake handled Clemson. They did look real during that game.
Today’s Dook game is remarkable less for its margin than for its spotlight. Dook did not merely get beaten; Dook got exposed.
This game teaches something. It teaches one thing we already knew (that you can’t win the tough ones without inside power) and at least one thing we didn’t know, or didn’t know as clearly (that Dook’s lack of a quick, true point guard can be exploited to great effect).
One game can be a window on a previously under-appreciated fact. Tonight we saw such a game.
Wow, K’s a-hole meter is off the chart in his postgame.
yeah–noticed that too THF. next week will be physical-moreso than usual–refs had better have the whistle at the ready.
What is he saying?