If you are a ACC basketball traditionalist who was against expansion.
Joe Giglio at ACC Now:
Give back the football money, ACC. Seriously, it’s not too late.
We all make mistakes. Just admit you made one in expansion and give Boston College and Miami back to the Big East (but keep Virginia Tech, please).
Ten teams is all you need. The only casualty would be the colossal failure that is the ACC Championship Game in football.
The upside? A true football championship, with every team actually playing each other, and the return of the round-robin in basketball. (The Pac-10 and Big East play 18 conference games, so could you).
Honestly, what would rather have: Virginia Tech and Boston College in another empty football stadium or a redux of Duke-Wake Forest from Sunday night?
That Duke and Wake were actually seeing each other for the second time this season made Duke’s 101-91 win that much better. Sure, the talent and the atmosphere helped but it was what Duke coach Mike Krzyzewski called “familiarity” that made Sunday’s game a classic.
“To me, that’s what made our conference even better, having that type of familiarity,” Coach K said. “It will never be that way again.”
And then K, who was against expansion from the jump, twisted the dagger into John Swofford’s football-lined coffers.
“I’m not sure what we gained from [expansion] but we lost a lot, as far as basketball is concerned,” K said.
Truer words have never been spoken. If only the ACC would listen.
Yes, this is one of the few times you will see me applaud anything Mike Krzyzewski. For those who were not paying attention at the time, UNC was also against expansion because it would delude the basketball product. At this point I think we can say that basketball has suffered more for the introduction of Big East-type thuggery in terms of style versus the actual quality of the league. Beyond that, the real weakness for basketball is the loss of the round robin which leaves several potential barn burners off the schedule every year. Take UNC’s schedule as an example. What kind of ratings and attention do you think a Wake Forest return trip to Chapel Hill or a Tar Heel foray to Littlejohn would draw? How about Duke playing at NC State given how well the Pack is playing right now? What did we get instead? UNC playing Miami twice which has nowhere near the hype as UNC-Wake II would have or UNC at Littlejohn. Duke gets two dates with Virginia Tech but not Clemson. The other aspect of the imbalanced schedule traditionalists care about is how you judge a team and its record. Now we have the whole strength of schedule element when looking at ACC records. I pine for the good old days of looking at the standings halfway through and knowing that UNC’s 6-2 was the same as Duke’s 6-2.
What makes Giglio’s post so good is pointing out that nothing would be lost by sending Miami and Boston College elsewhere and depending on a round robin in football to determine the champion. The ACC Championship Game has been atrocious in terms of attendance and I don’t think the TV money is there in football like it is for the SEC or other leagues. A ten team league without BC and Miami but keeping Virginia Tech would still be a net gain on the football side and on the basketball side we lose the ridiculous road trip to Boston and Miami and get our precious round robin back. It also should be noted that the Pac 10 and Big 10(+1) do not have a title game in football. If they can do without one surely the ACC can as well.
I know, it will never happen but kudos to Giglio for speaking the truth and that is expansion is not all it’s cracked up to be when you consider how basketball in the ACC has suffered.
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Can we give all three back and take Georgetown?? Think about 3 home-and-home series featuring G’town versus Maryland, Duke, and UNC!!
Blech I do not want GTown.
I didn’t like bringing in BC or Miami either, but I don’t think that its been all bad for the ACC of UNC.
1. BC’s basketball program fluctuates like any other, but not with the volatility of, say, GT or NCSU, and has proven itself a tenacious competitor and given us some jaw-dropping upsets.
2. Bringing in some “Big East-type thuggery” is probably good for any ACC team with aspirations of a deep NCAA Tournament run. Once you get past the first weekend, odds are good that you’ll have to play a Big East team (or a team that plays uber-physical Big East-style ball).
Whether this point is still relevant in five or ten years when BC and Miami (maybe) change their style of play to fit in with the rest of the conference is another question.
CMichael: if you had GTown in your conference, would you get rid of them (and all of that TV money?). Interesting point though.
ACC expansion will go down as one of those great ideas… kind of like Cop Rock.
I do miss the old ACC, where maybe people didn’t think about football as much, but when it was time for basketball everyone knew who the best conference was.
Look at the Big East, 18 teams in one conference and for what? I will always take quality over quantity!
AEM
Big East would like to dump Depaul and St. Johns and take back BC and Miami. We’d then have a solid 10 team football conference (2 divisions?) and better basketball. Thank you.
chicagotarheel,
I agree, the BE would never allow G’town to leave. I really only threw that out as a pipe dream. Additionally, they play DI-AA football, so it would set the ACC back to 9 football programs.
I wasn’t wild about expansion, but now that it’s done, I’ve been sort of OK with it, with the exception of BC. I still wish we could have found a school that better fit our sports and geographic footprint.
VT has been a boon for us in football and even, to a certain degree, in basketball. Miami is getting there in football and basketball and has really helped the ACC’s baseball image. About the only good thing I can say about BC is its hockey program, but they’re the only ACC program with a varsity hockey team.
BC can just go home. Seriously not a fan AT ALL.
VPI has been a positive hands down. Of course, the ACC never wanted VPI. The ACC wanted Syracuse, but the Virginia legislature leaned hard on UVa and the offer to Syracuse was withdrawn.
What should happen is for FSU and Miami to migrate where they belong, in the SEC. BC should be booted back North. USC should apply to re-join the ACC. They are almost always better relatively in basketball, than football. Note to Gamecocks, if you can’t win with Holtz and Spurrier, it’s not going to happen. If USC doesn’t want in, then the ACC should take its nose out of the air and invite WVU, which has excellent basketball and football traditions and is only two hours west of Maryland. WVU would have natural rivalries with Maryland, VPI and Virginia.
The ACC would then get back to a more sensible compact region with all of the schools being located below the Mason-Dixon and north of Atlanta.
I like those ideas William.
How long has MD been in the ACC?
The best thing I’ve seen all day is Providence up 13 over Pitt with 4:00 left.
BTW, Pitt’s defense is worse than UNC’s.
holy smokes. can anyone hold on to the #1 spot?
i agree uncgirl. that’s a great looking conference suggested by william. however, that would never happen as fsu and miami are deemed too important for football purposes (mainly tradition and reputation). i actually really like the wvu idea and i hope we NEVER EVER allow syracuse in.
“i hope we NEVER EVER allow syracuse in.”
Seconded.
Thirded.
Fourthed.
Forevered….
75-66 Providence. 1:18 left.
77-70, Providence. 45.7 left. Blair just fouled out.
Final! Providence 81 – Pitt 73.
the dagum friars friggin’ held on! uconn back to #1? what da?!
uncgirl50,
Maryland was a charter member of the ACC when the conference was formed in 1953. The Terrapins were fresh off a national championship in football under Jim Tatum, who left for UNC and had the Heels on the rise until his untimely death from Rocky Mountain spotted fever.
The ACC should be a 10-team league, Virginia Polytechnical Institute (how ’bout that, William?) should have been brought in with FSU – remember the ludicrous argument that, in Blacksburg, they didn’t bring a big TV mkt, you know, like State College, Pa.? Tech fans are everywhere and incredibly loyal and have been great for the conference, if only to show that someone in Virginia gives a damn about something other than what they wear to the game. BC is so quintessentially Big East that it’s painful to see them anywhere else. WVU should be in the SEC. Miami? They belong in the WWF
I have always thought that VPI belonged going back to their big win in the NIT in 1973, when it still meant something. VPI used to have an even better academic reputation than now I believe, but it is still a pretty good school. Because UVa is so hard to get into, VPI is the ACC school, along with Maryland, which has the biggest following in the DC area. UNC is probably fourth, after UVa.
The ACC originated out of 7 schools that withdrew from the Southern Conference in the mid-50s, which were the Big Four, Clemson, South Carolina and Maryland. The basis for the formation of the conference was…. If you guessed football, you are correct, and as would happen again, the football programs of most of the new ACC members went immediately into the tank, just years after UNC, Maryland and Duke all playing in major college bowls.
Virginia joined within the first year of the conference’s establishment. South Carolina pulled out in 1971. GIT joined in 1980 roughly, followed by Florida State in 1991 roughly. I think USC would have rejoined at that time but the ACC was intent on punishing them and they ended up in the SEC where GIT used to be.
It’s a shame Kentucky doesn’t fit the geographic footprint in any way, shape or form, because it would be awesome to see a UNC-UK home and home every year along with a UK-dook home and home. Then again, BC and Syracuse prove the conference considers the geographic footprint rather loosely.
I’m not quite ready to toss that last shovel full of dirt on the ACC Championship Game just yet. I want to see what the attendance of the game is like when it’s held in Charlotte in 2010, in the heart of ACC country.
And I don’t want to get TOO far ahead of ourselves, but there’s a chance that either State or Carolina could be in the title game held in 2010. Y’all are bringing in quite a bit of talent, and Russell Wilson will be a junior (provided he’s still here and not playing baseball professionally). Dare I dream BOTH teams might make it? In the event that either of the state schools from NC make the title game, I think you’d see a sellout easily. That would quiet a lot of the talk about it being a failure.
On the basketball side, I think the league should move to an 18-game schedule yesterday. Doing so would allow the Big Four to play a complete round robin amongst themselves each and every year, and allow for one more rotating game to help even out the strength of schedule argument some. Why they haven’t gone to 18 is beyond me, but I know the reason why — money. It robs each school of a guaranteed home win against a scrub and the opportunity to tack on an extra $35 to each and every season ticket package.