Playing the whining, wounded party today are we?
Eddy Landreth dropped a scathing column in the Chapel Hill News during which he hit every Roy Williams hot button issue there has been in the past five year except Stickergate which I am sure he would have gotten to had his editor not cut him off.
“The best team won today,” Williams said in a brief statement afterward. “The toughest team, the smartest team, the best-coached team. That’s all I have to say.”
There is also, no doubt, a good reason why Maryland stayed in the game for a long period of time with one player scoring all its points against a team of “kids” destined to make millions playing pro basketball someday who failed to find a way to guard him.
Of course, we know defensive whiz Marcus Ginyard is sitting out the season as a redshirt because of an injury, so that naturally explains why the rest of a team filled with seniors (who played far superior defense as freshmen) and juniors consistently watches its opponents shoot 50 and 60 percent from the field. The others simply cannot play defense.
“It’s the ACC, folks,” Williams said recently. “North Carolina cannot shut people out.”
Ah, this is true, but is it too much to ask for just a little defense?
Then there is the whole issue of timeouts. Williams did not call a timeout from the time UNC extended the lead to nine until the margin had dissipated to two points and just 37 seconds remained. By then the building had become a sizzling inferno, and Maryland had seized every ounce of momentum.
Maybe college basketball coaches can cash in their unused timeouts the same as Marriott points when they retire, which will extend Williams’ stay in Hawaii once he retires to the islands and no longer has to listen to ignorant sports writers and fans question his team or his decisions.
You will just have to pardon this dumb sports writer for thinking back to the 2005 national championship game against Illinois, when the Illini staged a furious comeback in the final moments before what was basically a home crowd in St. Louis. Williams courageously dared to call one of those prized timeouts before it was too late to calm his team and guided it to the title that he wanted more in his little finger than any fan could ever dream of.
Hey, who knows? Williams is not big on having to explain his reasoning to the ignorant masses and sports writers, especially if the questions arise on that radio show he has to do for several hundred grand every Monday night.
Dadgumit, who can blame him? He has to sit and listen to a bunch of stupid people who have the audacity to love his team and his school and want to ask the coach a few questions. What a degrading experience.
The possibility that some of them are trying to find a little joy in a life otherwise burdened by being laid off from their jobs and maybe having their mortgages foreclosed should not factor into a guy getting better than $1.7 million to coach a game for a living having to answer their stupid questions, such as “Coach, why didn’t you call another timeout before the lead evaporated to two and your team was stumbling over its feet like a team of 5- and 6-year-olds?”
But then again, what do any of us know? Whether we type words for newspapers and the Internet, we’re just part of the ignorant masses. Williams and his team will surely work it out, and we’ll all just have abandoned ship too early once again, as he likes to say.
Let me say upfront this comes off as petty, whiny and generally like a temper tantrum from a member of the media who is acting like Roy urinated in his cereal bowl this morning. Seriously, this is the alleged high standard of journalism bloggers supposedly do not approach? At THF, we have discussed at length Roy’s penchant for hoarding timeouts(Dean did the same thing, funny how Eddy forgets that). We have hashed out the defensive issues as well as the recent stumbles in answering questions from fans and the press.
You know what?
At no point in either what I have written or in the majority of the comments written has anyone on this blog presented the shrill, woe is me, hold my breath, stomp my feet, bile spitting rant Landreth presents here. I don’t say that to toot my horn as much as to commend the THF community for approaching the issues with respect, common sense and without resorting to the abject negativity of the message boards. This worthless screed by Landreth is message board fodder because it fits perfectly in with the kinds of rants that have been seen on Inside Carolina lately. At THF, the content is much more circumspect which is credit to all of you out there for driving the discussion that way and being focused on the relevant information.
Along those lines it should be pointed out that if your intention is to write about the Heels’ struggles on defense why on earth are you yammering on about the failure to call timeouts in certain situations or dragging up the call-in show gaffes? This is like having an argument with your spouse and instead of focusing on the topic at hand, one or the other starts dragging up past indiscretions for the sole intent of scoring points in a fight. This is no different. Landreth is not writing a column to talk about the Heels defensive woes. Landreth is writing an attack column meant to land zingers and garner him “hey, right on Eddy” emails in his inbox.
This kind of garbage is neither constructive nor should be it considered journalism. While some might say I do not criticize the coaches and players enough, I would like to think it is because I am careful to make sure such criticisms are constructive as well as being couched with relevant facts. The comments section seems to validate that. I also believe that if I ever wrote anything like the above piece I would be lambasted as just another stupid blogger who does not know anything. Funny how an objective journalist can do it just fine. The Old Media Guard says that bloggers like myself do not have the training and journalistic standards/integrity required to be taken seriously. If this column is any indication, I am not sure Eddy Landreth does either.
And one more thing. Off you go Eddy. Say hi to Heather for me.
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Great thread again here…wish I had more time to blog and comment. I can understand the media’s frustration with Roy and also Roy’s frustration with the media. Roy is never going to say; “Our peremiter players are just not very good defenders”. What good would that do?
Most big personality coaches play it close to the vest and Roy is no different. Part of the job is answering questions from fans and media who know less and sure Roy could handle that with more grace at times.
As for the ultimate questions about Roy’s weaknesses and putting what he has done in perspective…it remains to be seen. I don’t like the arguement William made about the way the last two seasons ended. We got beat by teams that were at the very least our equal. COuld we have won both games…perhaps…especially Georgetown but how much of that blame can be put squarely on Roy is questionable. I like to see Carolina play well and beat teams that they are better than and I think that has been the case since Roy took over. It is tortuous losing big games like that, but its probable that Roy gets the best out of what he has. I think william makes solid points about the most influentual people to Carolina basketball. Roy may get there one day. His recruiting has been phenomenal and the way he has turned the tables on Duke deserves serious mention. For a while they were clearly the better program and I don’t think you can discount the vulnerability of the 8-20 season. Much more to say…but for another day.
See, you actually owe Eddy one. He knows from selling papers and page hits. It might not be hard journalism but neither are alien love children…
nah william, Roy needed to get that out of his system, so he can put a major azz-whuppin on them when we meet them again this March. This next one will be the “get-even” game, the one after that will be to decide who’s the better coach/program.
Fun fact:
Carolina’s win over Duke on Feb. 11 was the 33rd
100-point game in the Roy Williams era. Prior to Williams’s
return to Chapel Hill, the Tar Heels had 29 100-point games
in the previous 12 seasons.
You always make great points, Jackie, and though you haven’t blogged much lately, your view on the BC game really clarified some things for me. Maybe you will have more time for your blog and for here, as we get down to the nitty gritty here.
william – your post about Coach Gut coaching the Kansas game last year is one of the funniest things I have read in some time. Gut was 0-2 in final four games, however. Dean probably would have been the better choice, even though he is a Kansas grad.
Should have let the IC message board posters coach the team…they claim to have all the right answers.
JackieManuel: “As for the ultimate questions about Roy’s weaknesses and putting what he has done in perspective…it remains to be seen. I don’t like the arguement William made about the way the last two seasons ended. We got beat by teams that were at the very least our equal. Could we have won both games…perhaps…especially Georgetown but how much of that blame can be put squarely on Roy is questionable.”
Here is what I think you are referring to:
“But I do think that there are many, many Tar Heel fans who still do not understand letting the score get to the 40-12 mark, without burning a few times out, and let’s face it, Roy lost in a crushing and humiliating defeat, perhaps, unlike any other in UNC history. This followed a loss the previous year in an eminently winnable game against Georgetown.”
I think this is what you were referring to, Jackie, so I am not sure that I see the conflict. Eminently winnable, to me, at least, means a game among relative equals, but where we had our chances to win.
I also think that Kansas was better than we were last year, but 40-12? Only 27 points in the whole first half?
K trailed Maryland 39-17 back in 2001 but had the gall to come back and win. I know that Roy also thought that he was acting the same way on the Monday night of the Memphis-Kansas game, as he had back in 1993, when UNC played Michigan, but I am not convinced that the situations were actually the same at all.
What Roy didn’t understand was that back in 1993, UNC was clearly better and Kansas still played a hell of a game and if Donald Williams wasn’t unconscious, well…. Plus, Roy beat Dean back in 1991 and got Dean thrown out of the game, to boot.
But by the time Roy made it into attendance for the 2008 national title game, he had already done his penitence vis-a-vis Kansas in by getting throtted in front of a national television audience and to the great delight of million of angry Kansans. There was no need for further self-flagellation.
Perhaps the only mitigating factor, for some, was that Roy became the Randall “Tex” Cobb of basketball. How? Maybe 52bgj can guess this, but like Randy Cobb, Roy’s getting his brains beaten in in front of a huge television audience changed the sport forever.
Back in 1982, Howard Cosell became so disgusted that the bloody mess of Cobb was allowed to continue for 15 rounds with Larry Holmes, essentially, without throwing a single punch the entire night. Cosell basically resigned on the air.
Last April, Packer was so unenthused by UNC’s first half performance against Kansas, that Packer declared the game over with six minutes and 49 seconds yet to play, in the first half, that is. CBS executives had finally had enough and even though Packer was ultimately correct, that was the end for Billy, so the night was not an unmitigated disaster for THF.
“Yeah, but the clock stops now, guys.”
Yes it does, on made baskets in the final minute. But if you are down 2-3 possessions with more than 1-2 timeouts left, most coaches will start using the TOs before the final minute.
Also, the simple act of the clock stopping after a made basket is not like the clock stopping on a first down in football. In football, while the clock is stopped and the chains are set, you can make substitutions and even call plays. In basketball, you can only sub on a dead ball (which a TO provides) and it sometime allows you see the other team’s set-up while possibly changing your own set.
Besides, if a team is as good as we are in getting the ball out of the net and back inbounds (or, as Skip Prosser used to say, he wanted the ball out of the net and back inbounds before the count of 3) then the fact that the clock stops on a make is irrelevant. All the stopped clock does is prevent a team from wasting 3-4 seconds after a make.
Now getting the ball to halfcourt and calling timeout to set up a play is an entirely different animal. I have far more issue with the end of regulation against Maryland than not calling TOs to stop the run. But, I have heard Roy speak enough to know that he thinks with a guard like Lawson you stand a better chance of scoring in transition than from a set play.
Those are great points. So probably, times out are less important at the end of games than back in the day, but more important than some of the critics of Roy’s policy believe.
I will say that I believe that calling a time out to ice a free throw shooter is both bad sportsmanship and counterproductive. I get so tired of the analysts hacks urging coaches to ice free throw shooters and NFL kickers. Strange that excessive celebration is a penalty in football but the equivalent of yelling, “choke, choke choke!” is considered sound and ethical coaching practice.
I will also say that in addition to that, thank the maker that college basketball does not have that rule that a time out moves the ball all the way to the front court. My wife and I were watching a pro game and she couldn’t believe that was the rule in the NBA. I guess I had gotten used to it, but it is really anti-basketball in my opinion. Imagine if the NFL let you move the ball ten yards down the field every time you called time out….
if Packer being dismissed qualifies as “changing the sport forever”, I guess I agree. not sure I follow you on that one, but I do agree that the nature of the semi should’ve been more than sufficient to “salve” Roy’s conscience. Anything beyond that was gratuitous, but Monday night didn’t bother me like it did some. Remember Ronnie Reagan’s “need to please” as guidance on those type issues with Roy.
“Strange that excessive celebration is a penalty in football but the equivalent of yelling, “choke, choke choke!” is considered sound and ethical coaching practice.”
you must love Pete Carrol’s display during his tenure as Jets HC then?
Oops – I realized in my previous post that I used the proverbial “we”, and although I am an alum, I cringe at that kind of usage. So allow me to re-state, “when a team is as good as UNC in getting the ball out of the basket…”
William – I used to kind of feel the same way about icing the shooter until they changed the TV timeout rule so that free throws are now shot after a TV timeout (used to the FTS were shot before the TO, and if the second was missed, it could be another couple of minutes before a stoppage in play). But now TV ices the FT shooter every time.
On the other hand, I was OK with icing the kicker until they started allowing the TO a split second before the snap.
But the NBA thing – I agree 100%!
Icing a free throw shooter seems fairly benign, sportsmanship-wise, compared to all the other things that go on in a game…coaches constantly berating refs, undercuts and hard fouls on breakaway layups, the way players are coached to use brute force tactics. I guess it’s relative to the ultimate level on which one wishes to see the game played.
I’m not really sure, William, how you mean that calling a time out to ice a free throw shooter has counterproductive results. Could you elaborate?
I am pretty sure that Dean himself did not call free throws to “ice” an opponent’s shooter. He may have called some concomitantly to set up a play on a miss, but that is a different matter. I doubt that Smith would deliberately try to “ice” the shooter, because he did not allow us to wave our hands or try to distract shooters during games played at Carmichael Auditorium.
In terms of “icing” being counter-productive, well, I am not sure that there is any evidence that icing works. If it doesn’t work and it the outcome is neutral, the team has spent a time out of dubious value, which is not a huge deal but still represents a time out that might have been used in overtime, say.
Second, what if calling a time out before the free throw, actually increases the probability that the free throw shooter makes the shot?
Preposterous, you say? Well, it is pretty much acknowledged that a fair number of free throws are missed at the close of highly contested games due to the exhaustion factor. (Hansbrough definitely seems to miss more free throws when he is tired, at the end of games, than otherwise but I don’t have data on this).
Maryland missed several foul shots in overtime in their classic 103-100 shoot-out with NC State after a game in which most of Lefty’s players had played the entire 45 minutes. I don’t remember any icing being done by Norman Sloan, but I feel certain that Lefty’s Terps would have welcomed some additional time to rest before shooting their free throws, not to mention the additional time to focus).
Thanks for the explantion . I’m still confused but I’m confused on a higher level now. (lol) But seriously, I kind of doubt a coach, especially this day and time, would waste a time out on icing if it might be very important later on. The most likely beneficial scenario would be to do it with just a few seconds left and when the free throw/free throws would result in tying or going ahead. Also, what might be considered an icing time out could also just be one to set up or remind players of, or plan for, appropriate options or responses related to a make or miss.
I think a lot of free throw shooting comes from the legs and when a player gets tired, it can throw off the stroke just that little bit necessary to cause a miss. A couple more minutes of rest could conceivably make a difference.
That’s a very valid point. I’ve always felt like free throw shooting in really tight, important situations was more mental than mechanical or physical, though. (Oh no, a perfect set up for one of Larry’s annoying golf analogies) Sort of like one of those tricky 3 1/2 footers to win a golf tournament.
It probably depends on the person taking the shot, both in golf and basketball. I would think that projecting a large ball filled with air would actually take more force than hitting a small ball with a putter, however.
I actually have checked this book out from our local library:
http://www.amazon.com/Physics-Basketball-John-J-Fontanella/dp/0801885132
That was probably a poor analogy, William, and yes, you’re right, it would depend on the player taking the shot. Interestingly enough, the PGA tour average for making 3 1/2 footers is right at 80% (one would think it would be higher) so, by making that putt a tricky one, and adding the element of great importance to it, would probably not make it too different in probability from a good free throw shooter in a similar situation. As far as force required, I wouldn’t think that would be much of an issue with players who can routinely throw a basketball 94 feet with one hand.
I don’t think it is a question as to whether the free throw shooter can muster the necessary force to get the free throw to the basket, the issue is more than the build-up of lactic acid and what not, throws off the normal environment in which the player usually shoots. I am sure that Tyler shoots plenty of free throws after running laps, etc., so it is not as though you cannot prepare at all for the situation but it is still a sub-optimal situation.
I think it may have been Mike Gminski who mentioned this, but one of the commentators did say that it is harder, particularly for hardworking big-men to shoot free throws at the end of games due to exhaustion. It could be apochrypal for all I know.
It is interesting to note that three of the greatest centers of all time, Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell and Shaquille O’Neal were all terrible free throw shooters.
Do you think they were poor free throw shooters more because they were hard-working, big men or because they were just poor free throw shooters? I have to agree though, everything being equal, shooting percentages suffer when players are reaching exhaustion. For the statistically-minded, there’s got to be some data somewhere to indicate free throw percentages at various stages of the game, including the last 4-5 minutes. That would be interesting.
I think that while large hands are a true positive for basketball players, they can make it hard to shoot. The other thing is that beyond a certain height, you end up basically pushing the ball on a flatter line to the basket. I still think that for 99% of humans, the way Rick Barry shot them is the best way. My mother played girl’s ball in the 50′s and while I know that people exaggerate, she says she almost never missed free throws and she shot them all underhanded.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ft_pct_career.html
By the way, 52bgj et al., how much do you think that Rick Barry would have been worth if he had been a racehorse, after his racing days were over?
We’ve got to come up with someone besides Gminski to quote.(lol) I did it the other day too!
I like Gminiski. He was a Foster guy, not a K guy and played for the Charlotte Hornets.
Along with Bilas, Elmore, McMillen, Rusty Clark, Steve Hale and a few others, he is one of the most erudite guys ever to have starred in the ACC.
lol–more than most. guy could be prickly but has a great sense of humor and “Flair” for the dramatic. did you see him with Dusty Rhodes in matching full-length mink jackets before a TBS game one night? “whoooooh”!
Every single son of his was good and apparently, dude only had Y sperm, lol….
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Barry
did any of them ever give consideration to UNC or vice-versa?
Steve Fuller, who was a football player from Clemson of all places, should be on that list if we expand it beyond BBall. Remember when Mike O’Koren said he and Fuller–who had a 3.9 GPA–had something in common: “We both made one B in college.”
lol Teague–that’s rich!
Wasn’t he from Charlotte? Or am I thinking of the guy after him from Harding High?
Enid, Oklahoma according to the internets–wasn’t that Steve Hale’s hometown, too?
Here are some UNC team stats for this year that I was curious about:
Tyler:
FT% Last 4 min. of game – 84% (21/25)
FT% Season avg. – 84%
Team:
FT% Last 4 min. of game – 73% (86/118)
FT% Season avg. – 76%
Tyler seems to be pretty consistent even when tired. Of course we probably already knew that.
So he is outperforming the rest of the guys down the stretch? Leave it to Tyler….
(Will apologize in advance, didn’t real all the posts as there were way too many).
I was one of the posters on CB that said my peace about the article.
I respect Eddy for his writing, but I don’t agree with some of it, this one being an example.
I won’t re-write all I said on CB.com because it was long, very long.
The only thing I will go over is this: the money part was the same thing the guy did with Calhoun, except that guy went to do it face to face and not by writing an article.
With the way RW answered about the money it makes the article by Eddy look even sillier, in my opinion.
Anyways, glad BB is back tomorrow, and let’s get back on the W side of the column!
AEM
I know a little bit about how it feels to have fans second guess you. At my radio station, we have a fairly fanatical core of listeners in addition to varying degrees of fan-hood among the listeners. Many times I’ll be on the air and get a request for a song (e.g. yesterday it was Primus) that I might like to play but just won’t be able to justify. We get all sorts of suggestions for running this show or that, for changing our lineup, and so on. These are mostly all well intentioned ideas from people who really care about what we’re doing, which is awesome. They’re almost always off base, however. The ideas are either ones we’ve already mulled over and decided against, are simply impossible or too esoteric to be implemented. Like Roy with coaching, we live, eat and breath our radio world, and we are constantly aware of the need to perform at a high level.
The best decisions are those that work towards the success of the entire team, which is a lot more difficult than it may sound. There are always limitations and consequences to consider. We, like Roy, always want to squash the chances for failure with our team when we might put our new program on the air, much like the introduction of a zone defense.
Like Kim Gordon of Sonic Youth said, “The music is always compromised once it leaves your head.” Coaching is always compromised once it gets put into action on the floor.
Good comments , dj, and I particularly liked Kim Gordon’s quote, as I did one of Roy’s from his press conference yesterday. “The fortunes of basketball coaches largely depend on what 18-21 year-olds do when they are under pressure.” That quote speaks volumes and is why I’m always inclined to be more forgiving of coaches.