I’d say the former Tar Heel and current member of the UNC radio call-in show is a bit touchy about those basketball jokes during football season:
Then there are the ones that are the worst – the ones that say, “I don’t care about football, I just go watch until basketball starts, we’ll never be good at football, this is a basketball school, etc., etc.” These are the types that I loathe. They are the cancers of the UNC program. They are the ones that inflict the most damage to the players’ psyche and hurt UNC’s recruiting more than anything. I went through this when UNC had back-to-back 1-10 seasons and you never get over it. The players from those days harbor ill feelings to this day and you can ask any of my teammates and they’ll tell you the same thing. For those out there that feel this way, please don’t ever speak to me or anybody associated with our football program – keep your miserable pathetic thoughts to yourself.
First all, I am pretty sure telling people their thoughts are “miserable” and ” pathetic” is not something you find in How To Friends and Influence People. Apparently they did not teach tact during the Mack Brown era at UNC. Nevertheless, I do understand what May’s ultimate point is but before we get there let’s talk about reality of the Tar Heel sports culture as illustrated by this graph of visitors to this blog during the past 12 months:
The huge spike of traffic coming between February and April of this year is basketball related. UNC is a basketball school and its fans are mostly basketball junkies, some of which are desperate for anything basketball related. In some cases you have folks who are UNC basketball only and actually claim allegiance to other schools for football(which also happens in the Duke fan base.) The reality is UNC has a winning basketball program and at this very moment arguably the best program in the country. That is tough to compete with and since it has been going on for 50 years, it is somewhat ingrained into the DNA of the Tar Heel fan base.
That being said, I understand what May is saying though I think it could have been phrased better. While there is a likely static reality concerning the level of passion UNC fans might have for football versus that for basketball, I also think it is counterproductive to express the kinds of things May complains about here. Saying “well at least we have basketball” or “football will never be any good” adds nothing to the conversation. Those of us who take a vested interesting in both football and basketball would like to see success in both. Yes, we are probably all basketball fans first and foremost but I have an interest in seeing the football team win and even get to a level where competing for an ACC title is a possibility. Will it ever happen? I have no idea and there is plenty of anecdotal evidence from around the country that says you can only maintain basketball and football at a high level for only so long before the secondary sport in the pair falls back to earth. Ohio State and Florida are perfect examples of this, Texas on the other hand appears to be a slight exception to the rule but that could very well be based on resources.
Regardless of that, I am not going to dismiss football and assume there can never be something relevant there. The reality is basketball will always be top dog in Chapel Hil because that is where the heart of the fan base is at not to mention a boatload of tangible national success in the form of NCAA titles. There is too much in the way of rich tradition in Tar Heel hoops for it to be any other way. However, the love for and success of UNC basketball should not preclude a fan from wanting more out of football. If it does then perhaps the best option, not to mention the most respectful as it pertains to the guys who are giving it there all out there, is to keep those opinions to yourself.
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Deems is a guy who tells you exactly how he feels, without ever sugarcoating anything. His candor is very refreshing, though he can be too undiplomatically honest for his own good, and that’s what we have here. That said, what he’s talking about is a significant problem for UNC’s basketball-first program — ever since the horrible loss to UVa, you’ve had a ton of fans declare the football team unworthy of their continued interest and jump into basketball mode. That kind of atmosphere just terrible for the morale of the football team and the coaching staff, and you know it can’t be impressing any prospective recruits. I’d advise fellow UNC fans to continue to come out and support the football team as long as they’re playing, especially since our team is still capable of coming back and having a respectable season (though to do that, they must overcome the obvious problems right now: a terrible offensive line and an ill-fitting offensive philosophy). There’s still hope for the rest of the season, and the future is still bright (unlike the last years of the Torbush and Bunting eras, when it was hard to work up any enthusiasm or hope that things will ever improve), and our players/coaches deserve better than for us to abandon them in favor of basketball (whose exhibition season hasn’t even started!).
Not to belabor the obvious, but enthusiasm for the football program would get a boost if the team won more games.
I think some of our fans started talking basketball after last week’s Virginia disaster simply to be able to focus on something, anything, else.
“Not to belabor the obvious, but enthusiasm for the football program would get a boost if the team won more games.”
Not to repeat what Deems said a paragraph above the “touchy” quote, but no one is blaming anyone else for getting ticked about the horrible loss last Saturday and complaining about it. Fans have a right to be frustrated with what they’re seeing and expressing their frustration. It’s the ones who go “well, the loss doesn’t mean much to me — football is a diversion anyway. Now let’s talk about what’s really important — basketball, baby!”, especially around the players/coaches/prospective recruits, that are really hurting the positive atmosphere we’re trying to build around the program. That atmosphere will allow us to pull in better players from around the country, and that’ll go a long way toward your goal and mine — UNC winning more games.
The simple fact is that people would be just as
excited about football if they won. Likewise, unc fans will turn on the basketball team if they lose, which is exactly what happened between 2001 and 2003.
The real problem here is the football team not being able to handle being compared to the basketball team. That is their problem. They need to man up and start winning or face the consequences, including comparisons
Check, I will never talk to you (unless it’s basketball season) and I will keep my miserable pathetic thoughts to myself, unless, well… see last parenthesis.
I agree with most of the posts here and THF’s post, but, I do see where Deems May is coming from and I have had similar feelings to him.
Call me bullheaded, or stubborn, or whatever, but I simply won’t buy the logic that says that Carolina can’t have two successful programs at the same time.
The 1996 and 1997 Football seasons, combined with the 1996-97 and 1997-98 basketball seasons bear this point out. Carolina football was a horrible 4th quarter at Virginia in 96 (That I witnessed in person by the way) and a horrible game at home against Florida State in 97 (I witnessed this one in person, too) from getting to a BCS Bowl. Both of those seasons the basketball team made it to the Final Four.
Carolina Football would have been able to continue and build on this success if not for some serious botching by AD Dick Baddour. He not only botched keeping Mack Brown here, but he botched the subsequent search by naming Carl Torbush the head coach, when we had Jim Donnan dying to be our coach if waited until after the bowl season.
My point is, Carolina has the facilities, the fan base, and the atmosphere to support two successful programs.
I CARE DEEPLY about Carolina Football.. I CARE DEEPLY about Carolina Basketball.
I don’t see why we as Carolina fans can’t expect or demand excellence from both programs.
I love me some Carolina basketball and I love me some Carolina football. But the GT debacle and UVA embarassment has made me watch a lot more English Premier League football and cheer on my United chaps. That’ll probably continue until after the bye week. Hope that’s ok with Deems May.
chuck, I think you’re right that we can expect to have success in both football and basketball. However, I think that high end success will only occur at certain times. You referenced a couple of examples in the 90′s, but again we’re talking about a couple of years here or there where both programs were performing at a high level. I think that’s fine and is about all you can expect at any school, especially one like UNC where one sport is so big and successful.
I love Carolina. I don’t care if it’s football, basketball (men’s and women’s), soccer, baseball, field hockey, or whatever. I want the Heels to win everything they compete in, and I am passionate about all UNC sports (just ask my wife, she thinks I’m going to blow a fuse one day). However, my anger at a loss seems to be greater and last longer when it’s basketball than with any other sport. Does that make me any less a fan? I don’t think so, it’s just the nature of things.
It’s sort of like a parent who says they love all of their kids. Of course they do, but they have a favorite (whether they admit to it or not). That just human nature.
Like HeelYeah, I will root for any UNC team or athlete as long as they exhibit class and sportsmanship. However, I feel justified in my recent disappointmetn with the football team — not for the fact that they lost but for the manner in which they lost. If either the Ga. Tech or UVA games would have been more competitive, I would probably not feel the disappointment as much. But in scoring, turnover margin, lack of offense, paucity of 3rd down conversions, etc., there is plenty of room for improvement. And that goes equally for the coaching decisions as well as the players’ execution. I root for the football team as hard as I root for the basketball team, but let’s face it, Deems… the basketball team has given UNC fans more reason to celebrate and express our collective pride over the years.
“I CARE DEEPLY about Carolina Football.. I CARE DEEPLY about Carolina Basketball.
I don’t see why we as Carolina fans can’t expect or demand excellence from both programs.”
I agree 100%. I don’t disagree with Deems. I am always bothered to hear apathy towards the football program from some UNC fans. Makes me grind my teeth, and I hate that. I’m glad an alum with a platform finally said it.
Hopefully, Deems was just having a bad day and I would think that an apology is in order. Calling Carolina fans “a cancer” and their thoughts based entirely on experience and realism “miserable” and “pathetic” is pretty much beyond the pale.
There are a whole host of sports that deserve attention from UNC fans, football among them.
Nevertheless, UNC is famous for two sports, Men’s Basketball and Women’s Soccer–which is probably the most important female team sport in the US. Our accomplishments in those two sports is towering and Men’s Football has to compete for attention with both of them.
Actually, most of the planet calls football a game played with mostly feet and a round ball. Hence W orld Cup, Olympic movement in Africa. Just check out a weekend English Premiership game to see wide-open, high skilled athleticism throughout the season. Partly this is because there is no league monopoly as in USA. Teams are relegated if they lose, regardless if they are M anchester United or Arsenal. Football in the US has become a far different sport with huge players, crazy injuries and too much bad behavior!