Comments on: Izzo Not Happy With Roy’s Comments[UPDATED; CORRECTION]

By: first time long time

first time long time — Sat, 05 Dec 2009 14:58:08 +0000

I am a little disappointed in Roy on this one. For this simple fact you can not keep calling Roe a great kid, then use his recruitment as the specific example of recruits lying on the recruiting trail. In all of our lives we have run across a person who may have done us wrong. But, b/c we have a great deal of respect for that person, we time to speak in generalizations about that person or situation that caused the problem. Some would call that the high road.
On the Rush recruitment the NCAA was on that case b/c of the relationship Rush had with a top Kansas booster. At the time many knowledgeable people openly questioned if Rush would ever suit up for Kansas due to the relationship with the booster in question. Roy may have seen the writing on the wall and just bailed on the kid to avoid the headache.

By: william

william — Sat, 05 Dec 2009 12:05:38 +0000

The original issue was this:

Did Roy call the kid a liar? The answer strictly from the text is no. Inductively, one might believe Roy did, however.

The second sub-issue raised was whether reneging or changing one’s mind is the same as lying. It is not.

The third sub-issue raised was whether Roy and Roe engaged in similar behavior. It seems that they did.

Aside from that, no one is questioning Roy’s coaching ability, his general value as a human being or the notion that reneging on a promise is generally a bad thing.

Saying that Williams and Roe engaged in similar behavior does not mean that I think Williams committed a “wrong”, either in 2001 or 2003. From the evidence I have seen, neither Roe nor Roy did anything “wrong”. They made a decision that was right for them and their family and one that disappointed some others.

By the way, I like the way you turned that around from a breach of the Kansas contingent to a breach of UNC, heels1fan. Pretty clever.

By: heels1fan

heels1fan — Sat, 05 Dec 2009 11:52:21 +0000

Okay. Roy lied back when he backed out. In 2001, he said he was coming, and I looked back at videos that year and he wasn’t here.

Plenty of fans, myself included, were pretty mad. Gut wouldn’t talk to Roy.

But we moved on. Roy is still a great guy and a fantastic coach, and I wish him the best.

By: rathskellar68

rathskellar68 — Sat, 05 Dec 2009 11:11:33 +0000

william –

Let’s assume, strictly for purposes of argument, that Coach Williams was guilty of the same sort of wrongdoing as Roe. That has nothing to do with the assessment of Roe’s behavior, which must stand on its own. The charge of hypocrisy is a form of false balancing, and diversionary to boot.

When I was a federal prosecutor, there was many a government witness who had led a less than exemplary life. But when they told the truth about the defendant’s drug deals, it was not any less the truth because of their past misdeeds, nor did it dilute the defendant’s culpability for his own behavior.

That said, the whole thing is overblown. Let’s be happy with the remarkable improvement in Larry Drew’s game instead of dwelling on Roe.

By: wb3

wb3 — Sat, 05 Dec 2009 10:55:12 +0000

Is there a difference between lying and changing your mind? Seems to me that Roe changed his mind; he probably wasn’t trying to deceive Roy for some purpose. That said, Roy maybe wrong on this one, if only by poor word choice.

By: hohosanta

hohosanta — Sat, 05 Dec 2009 10:32:31 +0000

I as far as I am concerned if Roy Williams had said Delvon Roe was a damn liar then he is a damn liar. If Roy alluded to the fact that someone has lied in the past then they lied. I back up my school and my coach period, point blank. I am a Tarheel born and a Tarheel bred and when I die I will be a Tarheel dead. Screw everyone else. Period, point blank.

By: william

william — Sat, 05 Dec 2009 06:37:30 +0000

Well, Roy was a man and in a very similar situation, on a public podium in front of thousands of people in Kansas, said “I am staying.”

Was he lying when he said that? Was Roy’s word not something to stand up for? Or did Roy’s life and work situation simply change, as may have Roe’s? If someone thinks they can parse this difference between the two situations, then have at it. No one has made as of yet a convincing rebuttal to Marcus’s example and I doubt it is possible to do so.

It is actually incredibly ironic that Roy even chose to raise the loyalty/promise issue given his heavy, heavy baggage involved with the same issues in leaving Kansas, a school that give him a chance that UNC never would have in a similar situation.

By: DeanForever

DeanForever — Sat, 05 Dec 2009 05:35:34 +0000

I’m not a journalist, but I would think that any member of any news coverage media would tell you that the goal should be to set the narrative before the big event. The game is over. This story has no legs. Tom Izzo made his comments, but he is gonna be more concerned about his next opponent than anything else. Izzo fired back like a proud leader would, and when you couple the fact that the press clippings read “Can’t Beat UNC” for the umpteeth time, he’s gonna be a little steamed.
On Roy’s end, we all know him by now. The guy’s gonna say what he’s thinking. He’s earned the right. Delvon Roe DID completely back out after a commitment was apparent. I don’t feel sorry for him by any means, nor do I condone Roy’s actions/words.

If it makes you feel any better:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaun_Livingston

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/player?statsId=4286

By: joebill

joebill — Sat, 05 Dec 2009 03:54:39 +0000

We just coddle kids to death these days, we have to tip-toe around things in society. The MEDIA is self-serving to say the least. (I could really get going on the Media, but I won’t) Roy has moved on, he was just painting a picture for his book. I guess he should have waited until he was retired, but he didn’t. So Roy just called it like he saw it. He felt a man’s word(yes, MAN; he recruits young MEN) should be enough. If a man’s word isn’t something to stand for then what is. Hurt? Betrayed? Lied to? Upset? Upset perhaps. But again I say…Roy moved on…so should everyone else.

By: rathskellar68

rathskellar68 — Sat, 05 Dec 2009 02:40:59 +0000

850inExile –

“It is Izzo’s duty to protect his players, so I have no problem with what he did. I hate to say it, but I don’t know why Coach Williams let this become such a big deal. I mean come on – the recruits who came to UNC got a Championship Ring – Roe did not. That’s the best way to get back at someone for not being honest. After that, just let it go…”

This is the response with which I most agree. I don’t approve of Roe’s behavior, and a person who’s 18 knows better. At the same time, every big time coach knows you don’t really have a committment until you have the LOI (indeed even then it’s questionable, since the word “committment” has less and less meaning).