Well, that didn’t go well.
The general UNC fan perspective is that the Heels showed up or rather didn’t show up, got whipped because of their effort. Okay, that might be part of it but let’s all remember something that might be a little difficult to grasp. UNC is on the flip side of many of these matchups they have enjoyed the upper hand in for the past three years. We became so accustomed to see UNC being the most talented team on the floor it is a shock to see them get manhandled on the interior by another basketball team. Yes, you can probably point to some effort issues. Roy did. Eric Montross did on the radio broadcast. When offensive rebounds or rebounds in general are the skewed, effort is often cited. However, Roy also pointed out that Texas is #2 for a reason. Montross said on one play that Ed Davis had perfect box out position on Texas center Dexter Strickland but could not move him. Sometimes the other team is just better. Sometimes the opposing players are more talented.
This is not to say UNC should not have played better or failed to do some things that could have evened matters up. The Heels certainly did not do themselves in favors with turnovers. The 60-41 rebounding deficit UNC faced generally loses you games. I think some of the disappointment ranges from the preseason expectation that this was one of the best front courts in the country. It was assumed the Tar Heel interior players would be the best big men around until you realized they lack sized to control the space not to mention an absence of a killer instinct. There have already been discussions about the post players for UNC being soft and eschewing contact more often than not. When that mentality is applied to an immovable object like Pittman within the context of a tightly called game(UNC committing ten fouls in the first 10 minutes of the 2nd half) that “soft” play is magnified even more.
It should be noted after watching this game that I am beginning to wonder if we have reached a point where serious tuning of the rotation must be done to ensure the best players are getting the most time. Based on the comments section I will probably get some agreement on this but not to extent some of you are willing to go. If it were up to me, I think Will Graves needs to player fewer minutes in favor of a Larry Drew/Dexter Strickland backcourt and Marcus Ginyard at the three. Graves is a good shooter and I think you can still make use of that. Otherwise Graves is slow and for the love of Dean Smith cannot hold onto the basketball with both hands if his life depended on it. He mishandles the simplest of passes, is often out of control on the break and generally looks like a heavier version of Quentin Thomas circa 2005. At this point you have to put the players out there who give you the best chance to win and I think that leans more towards the younger personnel. Ginyard, for all the grief he gets for some things, is having a good season and I think he should continue to see significant playing time. Likewise, Deon Thompson is catching heat for disappearing at times versus Texas. However Thompson has shown himself to be an effective player. Graves is the only one I see who should play less but if you can balance the minutes and get more of the Wears and Tyler Zeller alongside Strickland, somewhere in there is a combination that will be more effective.
It is interesting to note that in 2006, Roy had no choice but to hand huge minutes to Tyler Hansbrough, Bobby Frasor, Marcus Ginyard and Danny Green. With only David Noel, Wes Miller and Reyshawn Terry on the roster from the previous season, someone had to fill the gaps and those four freshmen did an admirable job. This season, because there are these veteran players, Roy is reluctant to turn the freshmen loose. Maybe they aren’t ready but for various reasons I cannot accept that. I have seen too many flashes of great play to believe these players will not be even more productive with more minutes. Obviously I am speculating and when certain players do not perform well, the fan automatically looks to the backups for relief. Also understand that this is not a call to cut bait and simply toss the freshmen out there for the sake of experience. On the contrary, I think utilizing the younger players gives UNC the best chance and a fringe benefit is they will get the experience.
Not to sound cliche, but to some extent “it is what it is.” This teams has some things it can fix on both ends of the floor. The offense needs help but the defense isn’t much better and strikes me as far too dependent on the blocked shot. A better perimeter defense would do wonders to disrupt the opposing team’s offense. On offense it is all about the turnovers. Fix that and a lot things get better fairly quick.
UNC gets Marshall in three days and will practice tomorrow. May God have mercy on their souls.
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I did not get to watch all of the game, but what I did see (and have seen this season) left me in full agreement with you regarding Will Graves and Dexter Strickland. At times Strickland seemed the best player on the court today – driving the ball, getting the hoop, making things happen. Graves was letting ball escape his hands out of bounds. Instead of starting at the 3, Graves should probably be the ninth or tenth guy in the rotation at this point.
I agree that Graves should lose some minutes to Strickland. Strick is doing too much well and Graves is still making too many mistakes for either to stay at their current level of minutes. The one thing that scares me about Drew2 and Strick playing together is foul trouble. If one of them gets into foul trouble there is the chance of the other getting gassed or some potentially shaky minutes on the ball for Ginyard.
This next stretch of games before the ACC season are a perfect time to give plenty of minutes to the young guys. A game like today’s is a tough one to get a look at these guys, but the weak upcoming competition gives you a good chance to see how good guys like Henson and McDonald can be with extended run, since they are the freshman who have done the least so far to distinguish themselves. It’s a great time to get an extended look at them without worrying as much about it costing us a game.
To me the two players who seem best suited to carry the team are Ed Davis and Strickland. Deon and Ginyard look like they thrive better as secondary players, and I have my doubts that there is a situation in which Graves can thrive at all.
The only snag to putting Strickland out there more is the lack of depth in general on the perimeter. You can certainly start both Drew and Dex but how do you rotate? Does that mean more Watts and McDonald at the two to properly spell everyone or do you simply bring Graves in at spots and move Ginyard back over to the two?
Well if you start Strick that means that you have 4 guys for 2 slots off the bench. Personally I don’t care too much about the starting lineup, just the minutes in general. Graves can continue to start, but I’d say about 10 or so of his minutes need to go to Strick. As I said, I would like to see more of all the young guys in the next few games. If they show that they can produce at the same level as Graves or better, I would like to see more of Watts and McDonald.
I’m starting to think that we need to lean more on some of the younger guys like Ed and Strick, and let Deon and Ginyard play more in the roles they’re more proven and comfortable in. We (or maybe just I) may be expecting more of Deon and Ginyard than they’re capable of giving.
Some of the trouble with sharpness relates to exams, travel, venue, etc. I was very heartened that the team tried to fight back. They came close repeatedly.
There were spurts from individual players, but there was not enough team play, especially on offense.
It really hurts to see a running program fail to run and lose many fast breaks to Texas. It has happened on other occasions as well.
The officiating favored Texas. Several calls against Ginyard were ridiculous. But that is part of the game.
Just don’t lose sight of improvements that have happened. Also, Texas is a good team.
Russfuss (I think it was you) made a good point in the game thread. We’ve talked a lot about the offense, but the defense needs some serious attention too. We scored 90 points, which is plenty to win a game in college. giving up 103 is absurd. A quick word about the offense as it pertains to defense, live ball turnovers are a killer for your defense because of the easy baskets they lead to, and we have a ton of them consistently. taking care of the ball on offense helps the defense. As for the actual defense, aside from Evan Turner, Ginyard hasn’t been the defender this year that he was two years ago. Maybe he’s lost quickness because of the foot injury, or maybe the increased responsibility has taken a toll on him. Graves is a bad defender, and I haven’t seen much to distinguish Deon either. Drew has been okay I guess. I’m pretty happy with Davis’ defense overall and definitely his shot blocking. Zeller is a 7 footer who doesn’t challenge shots. Henson’s length erases a lot of his mistakes, and opponents shots, but he doesn’t get enough time to make an impact. I don’t have much of a read on the Wears defense. They don’t appear to be shot blockers, but I haven’t paid enough attention to them on defense to say much. To me it looks like we only have one player getting minutes who is making much of an impact on defense right now. The perimeter guys have to move their feet better, but personnel wise, I’d say less Graves (and perhaps a bit more Henson) is the only real solution.
Fair is fair, “…don’t lose sight of improvements that have happened.”, they have improved quite a bit and it showed tonight. Texas is a good team and they have a lot of talent. We have some room over the next 30 days to get things headed in the right direction and build some serious strength as we get into the ACC schedule. Take care of the rebounds, look for better shots, drive and dish the ball to open up the lane and get good outside shots. This schedule will only benefit us in the end. I’d prefer Henson to get a lot of additional time. He’s starting to open it up on defense and it showed today. I think this was a hard team for him to show-up in but he did well though less so on offense. The herd…
Seriously, less Graves has to be the solution.
I think the Wears do well on defense and you generally see them show up when we need some intensity. They seem to go after the loose ball and are fairly strong so they don’t have the ball taken away very much. A good point guard goes right past them but they generally hold their own.
Check out Henson’s twitter – he takes lots of pictures and you get a better feel for what the UNC player life is like without the management. It’s interesting. He’s eating to be sure. If you go to THF’s twitter site he has links to most of the players on the righthand side of the page – Henson is lower lower. Just hold the cursor over the image and it give you a name. Apparently the team stayed at the Gaylord last night and they don’t bunk up, one to a room.
This is a rebuilding year. Clearly Williams hasn’t puzzled out the late season lineups, but I am sure they are working on how to play smarter. Lots of fouls were called against UNC.
At least the players were trying, often to stop drives, which led to lots of calls.
Another real pain is free throws. Low percentage and lots of 1 and 1 misses are harder to make up than a few turnovers. I am sure the venue was a factor here as well.
“I think Will Graves needs to player fewer minutes in favor of a Larry Drew/Dexter Strickland backcourt and Marcus Ginyard at the three.”
In a perfect world (like one in which Frasor played a few less games in 2007-08 and was granted a redshirt), I would agree with this, but I don’t know how prudent it is have all three primary ballhandlers in the starting lineup. Additionally, as Marcus pointed out, that leaves Roy with a bench with very little diversity. Given UNC’s current roster, it is my opinion that Zeller should be starting over Graves.
- Zeller obviously would give UNC more size (height) than Graves.
- Zeller, IMO is quicker than Graves. That, in combination with his extra length, should make him more of a factor defensively than Graves.
- Zeller is more refined offensively, and may be a better shooter, than Graves.
Obviously, the one downside would be the potential for increased TOs, but both players are averaging 0.7 TOs a game, so I don’t know that that would be noticeable.
I’d also be in favor of D. Wear starting for Graves. David would bring in a little more bulk and from a limited sample, appears to have a sublime jumper.
“Just don’t lose sight of improvements that have happened. Also, Texas is a good team.”
I agree. UNC has lost 3 games to the #2, #3, and #5 teams in in the country, and in not one of those games was the crowd “pro-UNC.” The common denominating factor in all three of those games, as we all know, was a large run by the opponent. Curiously enough, in UNC’s two other games against T15 teams (both wins, both at neutral/home sites) it was runs by the Tar Heels that ultimately decided the game. Basically, what this points to is that UNC is a young (inexperienced) team who can play with anyone, but at this point, is still too susceptible to the emotions of the crowd. I expect UNC to be VERY good at the DES Center this year, possibly undefeated. It will be interesting to watch how they grow as a team on the road. Fortunately, no one in the ACC presents as stiff a challenge as SU/UK/UT, and (on paper) UNC’s toughest roadie, at Duke, is the last game of the season, though at Wake has proven to be a real challenge for even the best of UNC teams.
I agree with C.Michael, primarily because I’m not sold on Deon Thompson this year. Deon gets the ball a lot. We probably run more set plays for him then any other player on the team. Yet he looks like the guy who is the least certain of what to do with the ball once he gets it. So what do you end up with? Lots of missed shots (from only a few feet away from basket), and he gets blocked a lot. Yesterday, he had his shot blocked by a 6’2″ guard. That tells you how tentative he is. Zeller, on the other hand, looks much more confident with the ball in his hands (and shot 7 for 8 last night while Deon shot 3 for 12…). IMO the offense should run through Davis and Zeller and Deon should be getting much fewer shots.
“Yet he looks like the guy who is the least certain of what to do with the ball once he gets it.”
Agreed, somewhat. When Deon gets the ball and shoots within one move or less, he has been good-to-great this year; his numbers (16 ppg, 8 RPG, 52% FG%, 80% FT%) are All-ACC caliber. Deon’s problems come when he tries to make more than one move, as is evidenced by his 2.3 TO’s per game.
Part of this problem (the TO’s AND the need to make multiple moves) can be attributed to the fact teams are packing there defenses in on Deon and Ed. By introducing a player with more offensive prowess than Graves (Zeller), even if he is not a true 3-point threat, this will force the other team’s defense to be less concentrated around Deon/Ed, which should free them up to be more effective (i.e. less TO-prone).
Starting D.Wear sounds like a good idea. He appears to be better than Graves at every aspect of the game, and his jump shot looks just as good to. Look at the ACC schedule-@Clemson,@VTech,@Maryland,@GTech,@BC,@Wake,@Duke. Ten or more losses is a possibiliy going into the big tournament.
“Ten or more losses is a possibiliy going into the big tournament.”
Well if you assume UNC wins their next 4 (Marshall, Rutgers, Albany, @Charleston), that would mean UNC would have to lose at least 6 in the ACC. I’m not sure the ACC is good enough to to think that UNC will go 10-6. If pressed, I would guess UNC loses 9 games this season.
12-3 non-conference
12-4 ACC (8-0 home; 4-4 on the road)
1-1 in the ACCT
2-1 or 3-1 in the NCAAT, depending on match-ups.
Final record: 27-9 or 28-9
Heels have 7 home games and 3 road over the next 5ish weeks. on the road @CoC, Clemson and State. Toughest home games vs GT and probably VT and Wake.
I’m guessing the lineup will be pared down by the ACC opener.
at least our starters dont play 35-40 minutes like the Rat’s.
We can get into this more later but Pomeroy has his player ratings up finally. Here is how he breaks down the Heels:
Deon Thompson: 115.3 Offensive rating
Ed Davis: 124.7 ORtg
Larry Drew: 113.1 ORtg
Tyler Zeller: 119.3 ORtg
Marcus Ginyard: 112.4 ORtg
Will Graves: 103.3 ORtg
http://kenpom.com/team.php?team=North%20Carolina
BTW, Pomeroy is projecting UNC to finish 19-12 and 8-8 in the ACC.
8-8?
wow, that would be irritating.
“BTW, Pomeroy is projecting UNC to finish 19-12 and 8-8 in the ACC.”
Yeah, but if you look at the game-by-game projections, he has UNC at 10-6 in the ACC. He also has UK ranked #42 and a 7-4 Old Dominion #19, so…
I like Pomeroy, and come tourney time, I find his rankings to be very informative, but at this point in the season, they are usually fairly inaccurate when it comes to comparing teams.
10-6 under Pomeroy doesn’t account for the probabilities. That just means they are favored in 10 games.
You guys are all a lot more sanguine than I am. Pomeroy sounds about right to me at this point. Granted, I don’t think any teams this year are as good as UNC, Pittsburgh or UConn were last year, but still I just did not enjoy watching that game yesterday at all. I felt as though I hardly recognized the product, i.e.,UNC basketball.
Some people probably watch away from the ball more than I do, but I would have to say that I do not see Ginyard as being even close to the equivalent out there right now of Danny Green.
LD2, dex, ginyard, Deon, Ed
then first, take dex out, move ginyard to 2 and insert Henson
either at the same time or a little later, insert zeller for Deon
then put in dex and graves/watts for LD2/ginyard and insert d wear for Henson
I think you can start the three ball handlers. Actually, I agree with Marcus. I dint care about who starts but I don’t think one can say that these three can’t be out there at the same time.
I’m no pollyanna, but I honestly did not think the problem yesterday was lack of effort. That sounds odd given the huge rebounding difference, but you need to look at the big picture of what was going on.
The big picture is that Texas’ two big guys are bigger and stronger than anyone we have, and it’s not all that close. I also thought their overall team quickness exceeded ours, meaning that their 3/4/5 players would sneak in for offensive rebounds, and that happened a lot too.
The problem with sitting Graves is that he is the best 3-point shooter on a team that needs 3-point shooters. That said, I agree with those who would shrink his playing time. One of the things that has cost us in our three losses — both in getting down so much and not being able to make it all the way back — is turnovers at crucial times. Graves is a turnover culprit, so best to give him less time.
There’s this too: Although we’re not a great 3-point shooting team, scoring points has not been the problem. So it’s prudent to give up some offense to get better defense, coordination and poise.
I know Ginyard’s stats look OK, but what I see out on the floor does not look OK. There are just too many mistakes, and the defense has been adequate-to-good, but that’s not enough.
Zeller is a funny case. He is valuable offensively but not adequate on defense. Many people say he’s too slow on defense, but I respectfully disagree. I have watched him pretty carefully. The problem is not slowness per se. The problem is lack of anticipation. In the half court defense, he doesn’t get there in time because he doesn’t recognize what’s coming. I have to think coaching can help with that. If he improves his anticipation, his defense will ramp up, and I think he can have an all-ACC future.
But it’s not there yet. So my proposal for the atarting lineup is this:
PG-Drew
SG-Strickland
SF-Wear
PF-Thompson
C-Davis
Zeller, Ginyard and the other Wear would be my first players off the bench, Ginyard at either the 4 or 5.
Henson is way too talented to just forget about, but the guy needs to learn to play basketball, and right now he doesn’t know how. Looking back on it, he should have been red-shirted, both for learn-the-position purposes and add-some-muscle purposes, but that’s water over the dam. He has the makings of Kevin Duran lite, but as things stand, he’s not ready for prime time.
I agree with C.Michael about our probable final record. I know we’re all disappointed today, but, again, the only schools we’ve lost to are actually better than we are. I doubt that anyone in the ACC meets that description, with the possible exception of Dook on their home floor.
“The problem with sitting Graves is that he is the best 3-point shooter on a team that needs 3-point shooters. ”
He’s not.
Graves: 33% from three
Ginyard: 46%
Drew 41%
Strickland and Henson are both 30% from three
David Wear is 4-7 from three. Justin Watts is 4-8.
Graves also shoots a paltry 34% from the floor in general worse by far of the players seeing action for 10 mins or more.
Rath. I think with Henson, it is less about learning how to play, than it is learning how to play against players who are much stronger than he is. Durant and Brandan Wright are the same age, have the same body types, and possess laughable strength (neither was able to complete a rep at 185 lbs (bench press) at the combine), yet Durant is a superstar in the NBA, while Wright is, at best hanging on. The difference is that KD has developed his game to be lethal in the open court, while Wright is still trying to play the same game he played in HS and at UNC. Obviously, some of this is innate, but I think Henson, as you alluded to, has some of the same basic skills as KD.
Agreed on Graves’ 3-pt ability. He shot 19-43 (44.2%) from three as a RSFrosh. Since then, he is is 24-78 (30.7%). Bobby Frasor’s career 3-pt % was 30.7. For some reason, Graves has become a bad 3-pt shooter.
THF –
I seldom recur to the stat sheet, and evaluate things based on what I see on the floor.
The only possible reason Roy could be starting Graves and giving him as much time as he gets is for his 3-point shooting. It sure ain’t for defense and court savvy.
When Graves is unguarded from threeland, I think he’s our most dangerous threat, stats notwithstanding. I doubt other teams think it’s even worth guarding Ginyard or Drew from there; they just don’t make enough of them.
That said, I agree that Graves will have to sit more. His liabilites outweigh (literally) his assets, even assuming as correct my sanguine assessment of the latter.
It’s too bad. Somewhere in that body there’s a really good basketball player, but it’s past time for it to come out.
Seems we have some divergent views from some savvy blogers. To wit:
“Zeller is a 7 footer who doesn’t challenge shots.”-Marcus
That is my observation, also. He’s prone to do The Matador.
And the following puts some nice analysis on it:
“Zeller is a funny case. He is valuable offensively but not adequate on defense…The problem is lack of anticipation.”-rath
Then the following counters that somewhat (being in context of the Z v. Will debate):
“Zeller, IMO is quicker than Graves. That, in combination with his extra length, should make him more of a factor defensively than Graves.”-C.Michael
…to which I will add this:
“Although we’re not a great 3-point shooting team, scoring points has not been the problem. So it’s prudent to give up some offense to get better defense, coordination and poise.”-rath
…and come down emphatically on the side of MORE DEFENSE. (To which neighter Graves nor Zeller would apparently bring much.)
The stats support the ‘scoring’s not the problem’ contention, especially so this last Texas-sized embarrassment. Our FG% is better. Our 3P% is better. Our offence is adequate! Except when you figure in the turnovers and FT%.
But our Defense sucketh. Period and point blank.
I like Z on O, but we need to improvee the D, Big Time. And he don’t cut it there.
I favor rath’s proposed line up. But I still contend the primary point for improvement lies with Roy. This is not to say he will not eventually figure that out.
C.Michael –
How should Roy deal with Henson to help make him the player we believe he can be while not risking losing games? I suppose we can start with using him more in the four cupcake games we have coming up, but what of the ACC season?
C. Michael and others – No way you can log major minutes with a frontline of Deon, Ed and Zeller. We were abused at the small forward spot defensively vs. Texas and Syracuse with that lineup.
Other random thoughts on yesterday:
*Way too many careless turnovers. I thought Ginyard and Deon played very poorly. Ginyard isn’t the defensive stopper he used to be, and he had way too many careless turnovers and forced shots yesterday. He and Deon are seniors and need to play as such.
*Deon really struggled against the size and strength of Texas. Usually he shots that turnaround up and over smaller defenders–wasn’t the case yesterday. Not sure he’ll see size like that anytime soon, unless he makes it to the League.
*Also on Deon, he has the worst hands of any UNC big man I can recall the last 25 years. Not sure if they’re small, but they’re not strong, I can certainly tell that.
*Strickland looked really good and I’m sure he’s going to get more minutes at Graves’ expense, as many have noted and as it should be. Match-ups will dictate whether Roy can employ a Drew-Strick combo.
*I like the Wears. They bring a certain tenacity that’s lacking from other players. They get to loose balls, they have strong hands and usually make solid decisions. If they can consistently guard the other team’s small forward/power forward that hangs on the perimeter, they’ll both be huge assets this year and beyond.
*No way you beat a good team like Texas with a -19 rebound margin and shooting 15 less FTs. Turnovers were fairly even, but ours were loud in that they led to some easy baskets for UT.
With all that said, we’ll be fine. Roy will settle on a lineup, and I think we’re seeing that Strickland will play more and Graves will move into the shooting option off the bench for 10-15 mpg. I really like the pieces, Roy just needs to figure out how they fit together and get the boys to play a little tougher.
“How should Roy deal with Henson to help make him the player we believe he can be while not risking losing games?”
I honestly have no idea. I suspect the method Roy is currently taking, playing him in spot minutes based on the opponents lineup, is probably the best meth, but I’m not sure that a “best method” actually exists.
“But I still contend the primary point for improvement lies with Roy. This is not to say he will not eventually figure that out.”
I agree completely. I thought UNC showed a bit of a spark when they went to the FC-press at the end of the game yesterday and wouldn’t mind seeing them employ that more over the next couple of games, even if it at the expense of some margin of victory.
I don’t think winning 2 out of their 5 tough games was a bad result. The main problem is just how sloppy and erratic the team is and second, let’s face it, we are seeing a fair number of guys who are not playing up to their touted abilities.
I am a big stats guy but sometimes things can be obscured by stats. I know that Deon and Davis appear to be playing much better this year based upon the stats; I am not sure I see that on the court in the games where they are needed and going against comparable talent. Zeller had some moments yesterday, but he still doesn’t look as good as most of us remember him from early last year in terms of running the court and shooting from outside.
There is no guard on this team playing as well as Terry did back in 2006; there is no inside man playing as well as Hansbrough did and there is no player who has shown the kind of improvement that Wes Miller did.
You can talk about effort and not giving up but just throwing the ball away on an in-bounds pass lackadaisically shows sloppiness, lack of focus and lack of effort.
The best thing I have seen so far this year is the growing confirmation that we will not have to worry about losing anybody to the NBA at all.
In 2005, we added Marvin Williams, who was a sensational addition. In 2006, we added Tyler Hansbrough, same thing. In 2007, we added Ty Lawson, Wayne Ellington and Brandan Wright, which is unbelievable. In 2008, we did not seem to need anybody, but in 2009, we added Davis, who had a pretty nice year.
I don’t know when we are allowed to start comparing this year’s crop of freshmen with those freshmen, but we were seeing significant output from all of those guys I mentioned by this point in their freshmen year and when I say significant, I mean these guys were playing at the highest of levels compared to their peers in the ACC and nationally.
Of those guys, who were all highly touted freshmen, perhaps Ellington was the slowest to come along but he was still trusted enough to take the final shot in regulation against Georgetown.
I think it is presumptuous for any of us to expect any sort of real success by Tar Heel standards if we have lost guys of the caliber that we have, without thus far, adding any comparable talent. I know some guys take longer, but plenty of guys don’t. Walter Davis, Phil Ford, Michael Jordan, Kenny Smith, Antawn Jamison, Tyler Hansbrough, and Ty Lawson were all damn good from day one.
Perhaps we do have the situation of a Vince Carter or Hubert Davis or a Mitch Kupchak, who were somewhat slower out of the gates, but for this year at least, unless something changes rapidly, it seems apparent that UNC does not have a single high impact freshman on the squad.
“…it seems apparent that UNC does not have a single high impact freshman on the squad.”-william
Maybe my read is a stretch, but seems to me that some folks are saying they believe Strickland could be that player – and want to see him on the court more, a lot more. I, for one, really got a rush when he made his moves yesterday…like a starving cat at the sight of a fly. “Yea,” my senses perked, “that looks like Carolina Basketball!”
But apparently Roy has reason for restricting Strick. So we are left – for the time being anyway – with william’s historical perspective. Which I appreciate.
And one more thing – actually fundamental to my point-of-view – illuminated by this quote:
“As a team we just didn’t have any energy,” Marcus Ginyard said. “Their energy level was higher than ours. They were just competing out there. We weren’t.”
Back to basics.
It’s all energy and movement. As I’ve ranted before, pointing to our stand-out losses, I put that squarely on Roy’s shoulders rather than the players’.
Looking at the schedule before the season started (and I think THF posted this at some point) the Heels sitting at 8-3 is not a shock. We could be 6-5 if we had lost to Ohio State and Michigan State. So, deep breath, the Heels are ok to me looking at the big picture.
Obviously Roy is putting the pieces together. The Heels have had their moments (1st half vs MS) and their problems (the runs by Syracuse, UK and Texas).
* Ginyard was NEVER and NEVER will the answer on offense. Any points he produces have always been “icing on the cake”
* Drew is getting better and better, but still makes freshman type mistakes
* Henson is just not going to make a big impact this year, although I’ve been hopeful at times
* Strickland and the Wears are playing well if you ask me
* Graves, well, I just don’t get it.
* Zeller is progressing well on the offense but he is still a defensive liabilty
* Davis and Deon certainly could be more aggressive at times, but our perimeter game MUST improve for them to be 100% effective.
If it were not for the Michigan State game, I think many of us might be closer to despondent than hopeful.
Looking back since UNC was on the road to recovery in 2003:
2003: 3 freshmen starters, May, Felton, McCants
2005: Marvin Williams–basically a 6th starter
2006: Tyler Hansbrough
2007: Wright, Lawson, Ellington
2009: Ed Davis–basically a 6th starter
If Strickland does begin starting, I can only hope that he can end up having the kind of impact that these guys did.
Recruiting is both an art and skill, especially these days with one and out. It is too early to say that the Wears or Lesley McDonald will not end up being Danny Green type contributors or that Henson won’t make incredible strides from here on out, but at least in terms of high impact freshmen, this year’s class is appearing to be the weakest in many years, obviously not counting those years where they didn’t bring many guys in.
And this is during a year where we did, in fact, know we needed significant contributions from newcomers. It was no secret that Lawson and Ellington would not be back and obviously, Frasor, Hansbrough and Green were seniors. Maybe losing Stepheson was a surprise, but I hardly think having him back would have solved the Tar Heels’ current issues.
“…And this is during a year where we did, in fact, know we needed significant contributions from newcomers.”-william
Of course Roy knew that, yes? And assuming he successfully recruited most of what he targeted, then the height average must have been considered an advantage garnered. It is up to him to bring what he gathered to bear, to coalesce a team. And that is where I see the downfall residing.* He must find a way to effectively mesh a personnel mix-type that UNC has never had and thus finds no precedent for.
And I believe that is a supreme challenge for Roy Williams.
Needed is creativity beyond a tried-and-true system that was designed to operate a certain way, most tell-tale defensively with (run ‘em ragged and foul ‘em out) strategies on bigs down-low. But it also applies to orchestrating an offense – a fresh and perhaps bold offensive implementation of this player pool. I think he needs to do some research. I think he needs nothing less than to go back to the coaching/teaching drawing board to redesign/reconfigure the strategy to meet the needs of his assembled, unique, pool of talent. Get that work down first, then install the players. If some read into this that I have my doubts on him meeting such a creativity challenge, that would be a correct reading. Shock me, Roy!
*No apologies; I don’t sniff the “these are early/learning games” methane. I don’t like losing.
Russfuss, just because people have a different perspective than you doesn’t mean they are sitting hoping for losses. Win or lose there are things to be learned from games like yesterdays.
I really would like to see a lot of experimentation with lineups and minutes in the games before the ACC season starts. If you don’t use this time to see more of guys like Henson, McDonald and Watts then you never will barring injuries. I think most of us are in agreement that Will isn’t producing much, so it would be good to see if you may be able to get more at his position from one of those three guys or even David Wear. It may give you a chance to see how it looks with more of Ginyard, Strickland and Drew playing together and how to allot minutes around that setup. It allows you to see more of the Wears and if they can hold on to the ball better than our upperclassmen. It’s a chance to see if we have some surprises on the roster without at low risk.
I hated seeing Roy shaking his buddy’s hand after we lost. I know they are friends from the Big 12 and the mountains, but I despise Rick Barnes.
Does anyone think that Dean Smith could get more out of this current group of players? I am not sure that Smith could and I am not ready to say that Roy isn’t succeeding with his current group but, man, there have been some of the most horrid stretches of play in Carolina history. I know they have made the games respectable, mostly, but still, why are they looking so god awful for long stretches of a time with all the guys they have back, such as Ginyard, Zeller, Davis, Thompson and Drew. All of these guys have had significant playing time in the ACC tourney and the NCAA tourney during their careers, so the competition level argument is sort of a cop-out.
I am not going to be impressed at all when we beat Marshall by forty points. And of course, it doesn’t help that Duke beat Gonzaga by fifty points. At the time, I thought Tar Heel Fan was spending too much time on the John Wall recruiting story back in April. Now, it is hard to understand how Wall was not a good fit for Carolina.
I still think we may be better than Kentucky by the end of the year but like some of the others, I think they could have won both the UK game and the Texas game if they had not played so spotty.
Rath “PG-Drew
SG-Strickland
SF-Wear
PF-Thompson
C-Davis
Zeller, Ginyard and the other Wear would be my first players off the bench, Ginyard at either the 4 or 5.”
I feel as if that gives us the best opportunity to win. Strickland (to me) seems ready for the big time. In games where we seem lethargic and non-energetic, the Wears seem willing to bring the tenacity to the smorgasboard, like Ed Davis does most of the time. Strickland is our “Brian Reese”. When we are facing a zone and attacking the glass looks slim chanced, Strickland drives in and makes things happen.
I wish I knew where the Kevin Durant comparisons with John Henson have gone. There are moments that he looks like he can do a lot more with the ball on the peremiter than he currently does. I would like to see him just for one game be cut loose to do what he can do without fear of repurcussions. I really think he is capable of it. I think, but don’t know for sure, that I would rather be in a position of having to harness his energy and abilities rather than having to motivate them along. Its as if he has been told there is a limited number of things he can do, while being told not to do the things he is best at.
I know this is kind of an errant rant, but just my current thoughts. Thanks folks!
Regarding Will Graves, he has survived a suspension and is a senior player on the team. Williams is loyal to returning experienced players, and Graves is being given an opportunity. His shooting percentages have fallen, partly because he is being guarded more closely as a starter, he is having to run up and down the court, play some defense and is easily tired. And maybe more minutes are exposing who he really is. Still his play has given support to players coming off the bench, who when fresh and under less pressure have performed well. Be they Wears, Strickland or others. So credit him a bit for more opportunities for Drew, Ginyard and Strickland.
Ginyard has a tough role too. Clearly the responsibility of leadership is not a natural for him. His injuries and efforts to expand his game are not easy. On the other hand, he made a nice spin move against UK, he has made some strategic threes, and yesterday he had spurts of offense in the second half. Maybe his defense isn’t as strong this year.
Zeller though is still laboring with the same issue he himself expressed when he came back after his injury: he has a very hard time anticipating and executing on defense. This defies reason though as he knows what to do to score and get high percentage shots; why can’t he turn this around and defend? He is not good enough to be saving himself for offense. Especially in a team with lots of tall players, when he flubs on defense he needs to sit down and think about it! Maybe for a long time.
It is also very tough to see a program geared to run “getting run out of the gym”, as Williams likes to say. That hurts alot.
Williams made some comments about rebounding in his pre-Tx presser, viz that if you want it you will go and get it. Guess who he told a story about?
Several of these guys played with Hansbrough, so they know what needs to be done. Yes Pittman was a load, but last year’s player of the year had one of the worst games of his career against UNC in the NCAA tournament. The coaches and several of the players are the same. In that game it was anticipation and effort. The players cooperated to double team when necessary. Every time they double team this year, it seems the opponents are going to the foul line or rebounding or scoring anyway. OUCH!
Losing at the foul line hurts a lot too. Sure it is hard to see in a giant stadium. But missing 1 and 1 first shots, both shooting fouls, and so on is sad.
I think this year’s team is in for a steady diet of inside aggressive play in the ACC. It will not take much to fire up the Clemson and Miami big guys when they see how easy it is to push UNC players around. I hated to see Hansbrough hit in the head all last year, but he never gave up. Concussions, loose teeth and all: you have got to try!
Someone suggested that Henson should have had a red shirt. You cannot take a highly regarded player of his stature and do that. Unfortunately, he is still adapting to a role position which he has little experience with. But he seems to play with enthusiasm, and I think he will come along. He isn’t the only one who needs to get stronger.
I would have loved to see Wall come to UNC as well, but you can’t get every top player. The real trick this year is to figure out how to effectively use the players we have. Other than Davis, everybody else on the team is up for frequent rotation in my mind if they are not giving 100%! Davis may indeed be playing his last year for UNC.
Overall though, things could be worse. Losing 4 starters and 80+% of the offense is hard to recover from.
Pittman’s mother, Selma Harris, told him he needed to have fun on the court. Pittman enjoyed himself Saturday, as Williams can attest.
“He blocked one of Eddie’s (Davis) shots and just laughed,” Williams said. “I don’t think he did it maliciously.”
Said Pittman, “Ed asked me, ‘Why are you so strong?’ I said, ‘This is Texas. This is the Big 12, bro.’”
The Longhorns beat the Tar Heels at their own game, not just inside, but by outscoring them 16-8 in fastbreak points.
Georgia Tech loses to the FSU Thugs. at HOME.
great start, Paul.
Btw, Julius Peppers just put his hand on his ear to pump up the crowd, bull-rushed Brian McKenzie, and sacked Brett Favre for the 4th down.
Julius would’ve made Dexter Pittman and his Big 12 arrogance cry. DP is Shaq-esque with the attitude too before any accomplishments.
Personally I’m looking forward to the ACC season to get a better read on where this team is. The early season schedule has had pretty much no middle ground. It’s been either very poor teams on the schedule or really good teams. None of the teams that we’ve lost to have lost a game yet (or at least any that count). It’s not at all likely, but possible that we’ve played each of the participants of the final four to this point. From a standpoint of where we stand in relation to the rest of the field, the only thing I know for sure tight now is that we’re not a top five team. The more consistent level of competition in the ACC should give more clarity, for better or worse.
The tough thing about this preseason is that it has been humbling for the ACC and UNC in particular. Duke has looked good for the most part, claiming a difficult RPI, trouncing opponents, etc.
I am sure next year’s schedule will be a little different for UNC. Well, it better be!
Games in the league are always tough. Clemson away will be tough, but most of January’s difficult games are at home. Which should help.
So I hope we have heard the last of Roy Williams talking about his job security in press conferences.
There is plenty of talent in Chapel Hill and lots of games to go. UNC can still win the ACC.
i agree marcus, we’re talking about a team that lost 4 starters, 3 of which were NBA first round, one the all time greatest ACC player and a carolina legend, ty and wayne were juniors, danny was a senior, and frasor was a senior. these guys had experience and we as fans were accustomed to greatness b/c of the continuity and sustained excellence we were blessed with as fans. this year’s team still has to find their identity and will struggle. the comments here are very educated so i admit that like all i do not possess the answers but i maintain a positive outlook on all things UNC basketball. Henson might not be the instant impact player that marvin, brandan wright, hansbrough, even ed davis of last year were (as someone mentioned basically a 6th starter). that just happens. he’s kevin durant-like, except KD was an exceptional shooter so along with his size and ball handling, he could easily excel on the perimeter, whereas henson was always a good shooter for a “big” not a big guard/shooter. strick has not come in looking like rashad mccants ready to score 20 a game. the wears are mini hansbrough’s but TH went for 40 against GT as a frosh, and the wears don’t possess the talent yet to do this. So yes, these guys aren’t instant impact in that regards. Someone even mentioned J Wall. I’d take a year of getting 5 guys who can help build the program, at least 4 of whom should be 4 year guys, over a one and done with serious ‘future probation’ concerns. Ed and Deon are still adjusting to being “the man” versus the 5th and 6th options on offense….ginyard was never a scorer and he’s still adjusting to having to carry the burden offensively in a go to situation. Zeller is showing flashes, but remember he sat out all or most of last year, so he’s only slightly more experienced than freshman from the extra time he got at the beginning and tale end of last year in practice and in games. so he’ll continue to develop. Larry was not an integral part of the rotation last year, and i could be wrong but i recall starting Frasor at the PG in the games where ty nursed his toe back to health.
So all in all we’re still learning who we are, and to play the #2, #3, #5, plus MSU who was preseason #2 before a loss and Ohio State who is or could have been a top 10 team before the Evan Turner injury, that is a LOT to ask and expect to not have some of our flaws on full display for all to see. Not to mention at UK, at texas stadium, and wasn’t syracuse at MSG (basically a homegame)? So should we have showed more effort, more continuity on offense, etc…? HELL yes, but EVERYone on that team is inexperienced, either inexperienced in general, like freshman status, combine that in particular w/ Strick and Henson who are also learning new positions, and/or inexperienced at your role on the team- Ed primary scorer, Deon leader/primary scorer, Ginyard-more ballhandling scoring duties, and yes, i expect to take some lumps.
Positives, Deon if he can trim down the T/O’s and stay in his sweet spot/zone of making a strong quick move and generating an open shot, he’s going to be effective w/ 16ppg if he can get down to less than 1 TO per game…Larry and Ginyard combined for 11 TO’s, so if they can take better care of the ball that is an opportunity for 11 more possessions. Strick is looking REALLy good, which gives me hope for not only him, but for Henson, Wears, McDonald, and even Graves, none of whom are instant impact, but if they can all make strides like Strick, we’ll be very very good.
Lastly, regarding Will….he’s got the most pure perimeter offensive game on the team. you can never have enough shooting and scoring ability. This is the first yera he’s ever had to log serious prime time minutes, so while he might not be the next DG, I’m going to firmly plant myself in Roy’s camp which is to play the kid and let him develop. He is NOT starting next year with the arrival of Marshall, Bullock and Harrison Barnes, and he might not even start by the end of this year….but if he can develop into reliable outside scoring, then we need it. Just remember guys, we’re playing to win in March. and while we need to maximize our gains and improvements and win as many games as possible, it’s not time to start ditching the game plan and sacrificing long term growth for better short term results in December/January.
and lastly (and i mean it this time), if we just pieced together some improvements where we went stretches for minutes at a time of sloppy play and no offensive continuity, and play like we played 80% of the time against UT, we have a chance to beat anytime in march. For a team of almost all new comers, i strongly believe we could have won the games versus UK, Cuse, and Texas, so hopefully we don’t have as far to go as some would think.
Go Heels!
College basketball comes at you full speed every night. It is not about the post season. It is about every game, every time.
That is a huge difference with the NBA, where it is the last few minutes or maybe the last period of many games.
Sure if you are favored and able to win the NCAA, maybe you will not play every injured player in your league tournament. But that is rare. I profoundly hope that college basketball never becomes a silly march to only March.