Not totally unexpected and yes, it does sting. Even with that, it doesn’t feel as crappy as the loss to Syracuse, particularly given the toughness this team showed not giving up after getting Kansas Gamed™ again. In fact that stands foremost as the issue that needs the quickest resolution. The common thread in two losses is UNC allowed the opposing team to reel off a some ridiculous run of points. Against Syracuse it was 22-1 to start the 2nd half. Today, UNC allowed UK rip off a 28-2 stretch to put the Heels down 19 in the first half. Obviously this brings up the “Roy never calls timeouts” debate. I am on record as somewhat agreeing with his take, especially since TV timeouts are available. That being said, I wonder with the mentality of this team if he shouldn’t rethink that. Granted the Heels pretty much made it all the way back registering two stops while trailing by three. So in that respect you could argue it did not matte. Still this was a young team who was clearly shell shocked by the environment in Rupp Arena. If it had been just an 8-0 or 10-0 run, Roy is correct to hold the timeout. But when that reaches 14-0 or 16-2 with signs the team is clearly rattled, I think that is a point you might want to bring to the bench and reassure them.
The other negative which probably killed the rally was the number of missed chances at the rim. The Tar Heel interior players simply do not have good hands. I am not sure how that gets fixed but too often whether it is on the break or simply making an entry pass to Deon Thompson or Ed Davis with a clear path to score, the ball is never caught cleanly. Will Graves had similar issues. When the Heels did manage to get their mitts on the ball, they were unable to finish at the rack. Far too many missed shots at point blank range. With the score 59-56, UNC got consecutive stops and proceeded missed a shot in close and throw the ball away. Those two possessions could be multiplied four or five times. It happened over and over. In fact had the Heels been able to take advantage of those opportunities they could have pulled closer, earlier and the game could would have been more mangeable.
Other negatives? Add to the list transition defense, impatience on offense during the first half and just general inexperience.
And yet, the Heels did find a way to get back in the game. That speaks to toughness. It says something about the job the coaches did to keep the players’ heads in the game. Lesser teams fold up when placed in this type of circumstances UNC did not and it will serve them well in the future. In terms of individual play, no one really played well. Certain UNC players had moments or stretches. Will Graves hit 4-7 three pointers. Tyler Zeller looked out of sorts early but was noticeably tougher in the 2nd half scoring 10 points. Everyone else was rather pedestrian. Larry Drew and Dexter Strickland followed up their sensational night versus MSU with below average outings for both. Drew was 0-4 from three. He ended up with six points, six assists and four turnovers. Strickland showed some flashes with a nice drive to the basket while scoring five points. Strickland also had three steals. Ed Davis had ten rebounds but only nine points. Needless to say the Heels did not get the all to Davis nearly enough but credit the UK defense.
From here UNC goes on to throttle Presybterian before heading to Dallas for a match-up with Texas. While losing sucks, I liked the mettled UNC showed in the 2nd half to hang around. The defense was very good and the Heels slowed the Wildcats down enough to climb back into it. Basically the game played out with the Heels’ defense doing what was needed but the offense coming up short. We sort of knew that would be the case this season. The question is whether the Heels can work out their offensive issues enough to win a game like this in March or two weeks from now in Dallas. There is still not a clear indication of who the offensive go to scorer is yet. Basically UNC needs about three solid offensive options. They have two on the interior in Deon Thompson and Ed Davis but outside of that is not clear who else can be relied upon score. Wednesday night Larry Drew looked every bit the role as did Dexter Strickland. In this one the interior players underpeformed to a point and only Will Graves provided significant perimeter scoring. At some point a player or two needs to emerge in a way that changes the direction a game is heading. Assuming we see some development in that regard, I expect this team will improve on the offensive end.
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First off I gotta throw mad props at the tradmark logo. I’m not sure if that gets tossed around here often but I laughed.
I realize that its painful to watch Deon get pushed around in the paint, and for us to have layups rim out countless times, but a big part of that is that we’re used to seeing last year’s class dominate and look good doing it. The bottom line is we have a lot to improve on, but still could have pulled this game out just on free throws alone. Against a team of this caliber in such a hostile environment, I’d say we’re in for a really fun season!
I for one, am so proud of these guys. They fought so hard and came back in the second half. Today was a great learning experience, and I am almost as happy with this loss as I would be with a win. (And I am prepared to accept the consequences and the insults that come with that statement.) Larry showed some flashes of Ty Lawson like brilliance. I say we just get back on the horse and move on.
Here’s hoping they have a different clock operator for basketball games at Cowboys Stadium.
Deon wasn’t the only one getting pushed around in the paint; Ed and Tyler were getting muscled around as well. I thought some of the outright shoves by Patterson and Cousins could have been called fouls, but it is what it is. The refs were letting them play, so UNC could have been just as physical.
While the points left at the rim were frustrating, UNC once again left a lot on the free throw line. Some of those misses changed the complexion of the game, and I’m hoping the all spend some serious time practicing.
With that being said, I would like to say that I personally respect Kentucky, but losing to John Calipari sucks. A win over Rick Barnes would almost make up for today.
One thing about the whole call a timeout/let them play debate is that it is easier to criticize a coach for not doing something, regardless of outcome, than for doing something. Ie, if Roy had called a timeout and Kentucky continued to dominate, most people wouldn’t say, “Oh, he should have saved that timeout for the end of the game.” It’s the same in baseball with removing pitchers. Also, this philosophy only comes up when it doesn’t succeed. The times that the opponent goes on a bit of a run, UNC doesn’t call a timeout, and they do right the ship, there’s no issue. But people remember the big runs and tend to overvalue them.
A “good loss” if they can get smacked in the mouth and still come back to play one of the elite teams within one possession. Maybe they’re about to turn the corner. It’s not how you start, it’s how you finish…
Charles,
I agree. It’s the CYA-method of coaching. It also hurts that fans, as we do now, have the benefit of hindsight. It’s human nature to put more emphasis on negative anomalies like a 28-2 run (i.e. The Black Swan).
Now, if there is something obvious a coach sees that he could address, like the other team doing something they hadn’t prepared for, that is probably a good time for calling a TO. But if it is just sloppy play (TOs, missed lay-ups), then you are probably better off letting them play through, or waiting for the TV breaks. Especially in November and December, when a loss is less important that learning what your team can and can’t do.
I know that Roy could out coach me while in the grave but that being said IMO he should call time outs. It changes the flow of the game. If my memory serves me, example..Carolina was on a run of their own in the first few minutes of the game and Calipari called a time out. It turned us cold and them hot. Every other coach in America can’t be wrong and Ol’ Roy right on this matter. Maybe Roy should have a ten point rule.
Sidebar, let me be the first to say I so far have been wrong (luckily so) about Mr. Graves play. He has been semi wonderful for us. Sorry will.
Will has been such an enigma this season, especially the last two games. He starts, seems to make a couple of mistakes, gets buried on the bench, then comes back in the last 4 minutes to make huge plays for the Heels. I give him a lot of credit for staying in the game and Roy credit for being willing to still use him.
It’s too bad that UNC didn’t have one more primary ball handler because right now, I think the best lineup is Drew, Strickland, Ginyard, Davis, and Thompson. But you really can’t go long stretches with no legit ball handling on the bench.
I think when you are getting hit with a big run by the other team its ok to weather it for a little while, but when it gets above 12 or 14 points then at a minimum call a new defense. Switch to zone or full court or… anything to stop the momentum. Thats what you usually see coming out of timeouts when (other) coaches call timeouts to stop a run. But hey – Roy is still the best in the business (IMO) and I haven’t forgotten that last year during the tournament he DID use timeouts to stop a few runs, so maybe its just a “regular season” thing (after learning a lesson against Kansas).
THF hit on the fact that Zeller really started to assert himself in the 2nd half. However, he was then benched and Thompson was put in the game and… well, about those 3 straight possessions where we were only down by 3 but didn’t finish around the basket? Yeah, that was after Zeller was taken out and Thompson was put in… I still don’t understand that(?) – Heck, even one of the Wears got some playing time after that while Zeller continued to sit on the bench.
“If my memory serves me, example..Carolina was on a run of their own in the first few minutes of the game and Calipari called a time out.”
UK called 2 TO’s in the first 4 minutes. After the first, UNC went on a 8-0 run leading up to the second. After the second UK scored 4 straight before the TV TO.
Alright, I just looked over the photos on the university’s website. There are 2 photos of one of Kentucky’s guys holding onto Deon’s jersey, I can’t tell if that is before or after his shot, but anyways. I do think the officiating played a part in this loss by letting us get mugged each time around the rim. Anyways in all I am very impressed with our guys. They should be a final four contender come March. And Roy should call a timeout w/ a 10-0 run. Go H E E L S!
I don’t know if a timeout is necessary to stop easy transition baskets, but therein lies the problem. For a team supposedly priding itself on a “defensive identity”, they are woefully lacking at this point. Wall is a crackerjack pg, but if I’m one of those “defensive minded” guards, I’m studying film of the guy, and figuring out a way to disrupt him–(and for the doubters, I guarantee someone, somewhere will figure him out enough to slow him down–just wish it would be one of ours). Defense is becoming a lost art, but it starts with the desire and commitment.
Nice summary THF. Good to see the Heels come back in the 2nd half. IMO Roy needs to call at least one time out during that 28-2 run. I felt the Heels were rushing their shots and not pounding the ball inside enough. And they were not getting back on defense quickly enough. Being the first half you can not use those time outs in the second half. Use them. Sorry but this is a common mistake for Roy and has hurt the Heels in quite a few games.
I thought Ginyard had a bad game and have not been too impressed with his play this year. His defense is fine but he cannot afford to make mistakes on offense. I would like to see him hit 8 points a game and 3-4 assits, no turnovers.
Graves reminds me of D Green 2 seasons ago. He will hit some big shots but then make a few bone head mistakes. I think he will only get better.
When I see Zellar I have to tell myself he is not Hansbough. I want Zellar to take the ball to the hoop stronger and rebound stronger. Remember he didn’t play much last year.
Thompson stills seems soft but I’d rather have him in at the end of the game than Zellar. He got fouled quite a bit with out a call.
The last 2 games have really showed us alot. This team will only get better and its just the first week in Dec. There will be some lows but I am very exicted about the rest of the year. GO Heeels
John Wall was very impressive. I think KU has a pretty nice team.Look for them to be in the final four.
The common theme in each of our losses has been the opponents’ big run. That is what needs to be stopped. What we’re doing now isn’t working, so let’s try something else. As C.Michael among others has pointed out, Nov-Dec is still the time for experimentation (although we’ve now played nearly a third of our regular season schedule). If we can try different player combinations, we can try calling timeout. If it doesn’t work, fine, we’ll go to plan B. But when you KNOW why you’re losing games, you MUST adopt a strategy to counteract it.
Hope is not a strategy. Nor is it a part of Carolina’s tradition, or a recipe for success, for us to try to talk ourselves to Happyville by saying it was a “good effort” by a young team. That is the anthem of losers, and the Carolina I know IS NOT A LOSER.
It’s true that it was a good effort (in the second half, after allowing ourselves to be humiliated on national TV in the first). It’s also true that we are predominantly a young team. But finding rationales for coming up short is the opiate of those who’ll wind up making a habit of it.
We can’t have Hansbrough any more, but we can have his spirit, and we are in need of it just now. I doubt Hansbrough would be saying to himself, “We’re a young team and still learning, so losing is to be expeccted.” I think his response would be to bull his way to the basket and get the job done. And that’s the way we need to start thinking.
THF –
“He might also believe calling the timeout is a clear signal you have panicked.” (From your comment on the prior thread).
Panic is underrated.
When you’re getting down so deep that even a determined effort isn’t going to get you all the way back, the time for panic has arrived. Or if not panic, exactly, something out of the ordinary that is going to change the direction of things.
As I say, hope is not a strategy.
Missed the whole thing, sadly. Sorry I missed seeing the rally & near-comeback…not sorry on missing the 28-2 run (or however much that it was). Driving through Little Rock / Arkansas on I-30 is not ideal to find UNC hoops on the radio. I’m hoping to see the Heels in-person on Dec 19th at the Cowpokes stadium in Arlington.
Must add it’s always a treat to see the ol’ north state. BBQ samich at the Q shack, legitimately sweetened iced tea and the fried potato chips + ranch at Hams. A few pints of Yuengling never hurts either. And the locals talk about college hoops intelligently.
UNCSteph, grabbing jerseys happens at all levels. My posts do it to the people they’re guarding. It’s one of those small things people do becuase the refs don’t see it. I “poke” (it’s more like a jab) people who keep elbowing me when I play.
Tx, hope you manage to get tickets. I’m really looking forward to the game. My first in person game! I can’t wait.
i agree with rath about this year’s team and their mentality. while we know there is a learning curve, these guys should expect to win, not b/c we’re psycho fans who are out for blood with each loss, but b/c these guys are that good. so yes, they should believe and expect to be on the winning side of each and every ballgamae (whether it happens or not). As far as timeouts, if we didn’t have that kansas fiasco, i’d say whole heartedly that the regular season is for growing as a team, you are preparing for march, and to get there you need to overcome some bumps and bruises. growing up in big ten country, i’ve seen the downfall of overmanaging games with timeouts throughout the regular season…then come post season time, all of a sudden you’re out of timeouts and you get punched in the mouth and you don’t know how to react. i think over managing each player each and every game does not foster growth as well as the alternative. that being said, i’m partially making an argument for the other side of the coin b/c in the final four, we still didn’t use timeouts. hey, i can live w/ 2 rings this decade, so who am i to say that this strategy didn’t work out COUNTLESS other times where we didn’t give credit where credit is due. heck, not using timeouts could have been what built our toughness to even get to the FF in 08 (no proof just saying)…so i’m in the camp that says there is a calculated rationale by roy behind everything he does, i believe in roy, thus, i will not doubt his actions in a game…especially in december.
for the team, yeah, UK was extremely physical downlow and the refs let them play…so it goes both ways, get tough, come strong, or don’t come at all…zeller looked great in the 2nd half, and we just have to remember he is a sophomore but a sophomore that is still about 20 games behind LD and Ed, so he’ll continue to grow and get better .
Deon was Deon, i liked his leadership, he can get stronger and have better hands and finish better, but like i said, he’s deon, he came out of the timeout towards the end and faced up against PP and nailed a jumper in a clutch possession, showing he’s not the deon of old who gets rattled adn mentally shuts it down…good for you deon, i hope to see that same determination. Strick, while “pedestrian” offensively, showed he can do a good job of matching up on J Wall should we meet again. I think if we subtly tweaked the defense to have our guards not help down on drives, we would have won the game (among so many other things). they killed us in the first half when Wall or Bledsoe would drive the ball, but rightly so, Strick and Larry were playing off these guys giving them space and forcing them to shoot…so when they’d drive, we had a big coming over to help, but we also had our guards collapsing. that left the easy kick out to the wing/corner for about 4 or 5 3′s….(well, at least 3 or 4)…i think making bledsoe and wall shoot w/ pressure w/ a shotblocker looming in a tough spot in the lane is a better option defensively than allowing a wide open spot up Jumper.
again that speaks to us focusing on what WE do and not completely building our game plan to suit other team’s strengths….i think if we played them on a neutral court, we’d win, at home, we’d win, so i’d take 2 out of 3 against these guys any day.
bottom line is our early season has been a success so far…even though we were ranked 5th to start, we all knew we had some growing up to do, and it looks like we’re doing it.
Tex11, I was fortunate to see the UNC/MSU game in-person at Smith Center. After watching that game’s outcome, i certainly plan to see this contest.
Blessed is he who hath friends bearing UNC game tickets.
Some incisive posts regarding basketball have been made. Jordan8027 is one, but there are others. Nice.
My pre-game post noted three things – the game was at UK and that would be a factor; hoped it would not be a UK rout; and that no Heel got hurt. So after the 1st half rout, my fears subsided, UK did not even cover the 4-point spread, and all Heels are still on deck. While a loss, damnit, toleration of the outcome be my bromide.
Here’s what I saw: Calipari (do not like that REMOVED[THF]) called a time out (his 2nd), told his team to ramp up the D. The came out and dramatically did. Heels started missing shots in the face of it, then started rushing shots in efforts to make 5 point baskets, I guess. With every Heels miss, the run-out was on, the D did not get back to D. Snowball ensued. Another rushed/missed shot, another run-out w/o Defenders back. (Yes, a timeout would have been advised after a bit of seeing how his youngin’s responded. He had talked to them pre-game about the importance of poise. But seeing how they were reacting, rather than responding, call the damn time out. Or not.)
BTW: Remember the “Boys of Poise” who would, “Cut No Net Before Its Time?” Ah, yesteryear! Though I love watching the matriculation of this group. Anyway…
“It’s all about energy…” was a wise-beyond-years observation made by Wes Johnson after the Syracuse trouncing. And that points to the common thread I see in Roy’s notable losses and near-losses – KU, Syra, UK, to note exemplary more-current ones. Calipari’s time out charged his players’ energy and they came out of it on fire. Jayhawks came out on fire. Boeheim’s 2nd-half team came out fired. Each of these caught Roy’s squad off guard, not matching the level of energy. Simply.
Now there are surely posters to this blog who can (but hopefully will refrain) bring games out of the archives that would seem to negate the observation by adding stuff like, well, you can have great energy but if you’re not that good, etc. I stand by this: Reality is energy and movement, bottom line and bank on it. Simply match reality. Get it up and harness it and the odds become Great Friend. So all of this is to point out something that I see in Roy’s game MO that perhaps could be improved upon. Not that I know anything about b-ball coaching, but I do have a little experience with living.
A couple more things, if I may and anyone is still reading. The comment about our Bigs lacking “hands.” From some martial arts work that I have done, I know that in whole-body movement it is the footing/legs that is the foundation for the work of the arms and hands, juiced by the spring of vitality in the lower abdominal region, and connected and informed by the spine/brain root. Perhaps sounds esoteric; knowledge/employment of it works. A more common way of putting it might refer to having the “spine” to “hold your ground.” The analogy-now-cliché is bending like a hollow bamboo. When the Bigs play from their Center and hold it despite/with the jousting, the hands will receive and deliver.
Lastly, I do not see our offense, THF, that is deficient (although improvement beckons and will come), it is, as 52bgJ pointed out, the extremely-less-than-advertised “defensive identity.” When Roy tells them to ramp it up they do, but only in spurts. That’s not going to cut down any nets and, if the offense does need bolstering, defense can be there to do so.
Zoomba, Heels!
I don’t think Calipari told his team to “ramp up the D” quite so much as he saw the way the referees were officiating the game, called a TO, and told his team to “thug it up.” Obviously it worked — the young Heels still have to learn how to respond when an opponent turns a game into a physical, “we’ll foul more than you can call, Ref” Big East-type affair.
russfuss, I don’t find your metaphysics particularly interesting or persuasive, but that’s simply a matter of taste; however, my reaction to the racist epithets you level at Calipari…..
well, I’ll just address THF. is this sort of racism acceptable? “greaseball”: appropriate vocabulary here? as a reader who enjoys the blog very much, I hope not–I’d appreciate your saying something, THF.
“greaseball” is racist? How about “scumbag” or “ratface”?
I was not aware “greaseball” was racist. According to Merriam-Webster it is an offensive term sometimes used to refer to people of Italian, Hispanic or Mediterranean descent.
As such, it has been stricken from the comment in which it was used. The other instances will be left since they were inquiries into its usage.
Thank the Passer, the term “ratface” is only racist if your name is Coach K. And I’m not sure what race he belongs to.
HeelYeah,
H.G. Wells does an excellent job describing K’s ancestors in, “The Time Machine.” He comes from a group of beings called Morlocks, which are a “pale, apelike people who live in darkness underground.”
When your team is blessed with a huge lineup of extremely tall players, it is tough to see them dominated by another team.
Wake Forest has a lot of big players, and they have been far from impressive thusfar. I won’t be surprised to see a physical game with them on 1/20, but neither team is using their size well yet.
Players in all sports use physical play against their opponents. My 14 year old daughter plays high level competitive soccer here in Phoenix. She is very fast and opposing players will grab, knee, trip, push, etc. The referees do not see all of this. Jersey holding is rampant. I tell her over and over to do what it takes to make it clear to the opponent that holding her jersey is not going to happen. And so on. It worries me for her because it is so easy for these kids to get hurt. Lots of her friends have had the dreaded ACL injury.
Former recent players at UNC could only be held back by repeated shots to the head, which happened so much last year that I feared it was going to lead to permanent brain damage, especially involving certain teams to the South.
So the current guys are going to see all this again on film, but they have to want it. Or they will continue to get worked over. You can bet every subsequent opponent this year will try VERY HARD to get physical.
Because frankly it is working so far.
As an animal lover, I object. Using “ratface” to describe Coach K is unfair to rats.
So it seems that we’ll be playing Pitt in the Carcare Bowol, or whatever it’s called.
My excuse for watching will be that at least one of the teams deserves post-season play. That is not, however, the team for which I’ll be rooting.
I hate rats: roof rats, pack rats, and yes guttter rats. Rats carry diseases like plague, destroy crops and things you would not even believe.
AZACCFan,
I don’t get your point and I don’t see how physical play has worked. Carolina has lost two games thus far. Syracuse wasn’t physical, Carolina just played a crappy game and turned the ball over too many times which led to easy buckets on the other end.
Kentucky was physical, but the jury is still out on if it worked. If Carolina hits its free throws and doesn’t rim out layups it would have been a comfortable win for the Heels.
I’m not arguing that teams will try it. I’m just saying the jury is still out if the tactic will work or not.
i don’t think getting physical with us is the problem, i saw a lot of bumps on one particular stretch in the first half in which ed and zeller both had chances at the rim, the play that started w/ zeller getting bumped off the block by cousins and ended w/ graves trying to dunk on cousins (might have been orton) and it rimmed out and the ball went out of bounds after another scrum and we got possession…so lots of in close chances, we get a set play out of bounds…i think the ball bounces a different way a few times and we win. mental toughness from guard play aside, which will continue to develop, remembering that john wall is a next level PG so his ‘frosh’ status is tough to really say is a disadvantage, even with that aside, we had too many silly turnovers and quick shots that led to long run out rebounds. the turnovers we generated were travels, double dribbles or forcing them to throw it out of bounds, allowing them to set their defense.
+2 on made FGs
+1 on made 3s
+13 FG attempts
4 fewer turnovers
-2 overall rebounds
+4 offensive rebounds
only 13 FT attempts, and i THINK we only missed one first shot of a 1and1.
with fouls essentially even, and Ky shooting 11 more FTs, maybe we didnt pressure their D enough to get them.
OR, shoot 10/13, 77%, and possibly win the game.
oh, and as someone mentioned on TOs, you have one that HAS to be taken in the first half. its up to you if you think its better for drawing up a single play with 5 secs left in the 1st half or attempting to stop a 28-2 run. attempting.
Has anyone seen Marcus Ginyard? Besides Ginyard fouling out you’d be hard pressed to find his impact on the game Saturday.
Don’t mean to pick, but it is time for a Mr. Ginyard to step up. Where is the lock down defender, the guard that is a terror on the offensive glass, or the calming leader during an opponent’s onslaught in a hostile environment?
Maybe it is time for a certain senior to stop all the tweeting and talking about Duke, and start doing more of their talking on the court and in the locker room instead of via “the cloud”.
It’s really a weird feeling. Despite our flaws and having lost 2 games, I am still not afraid to play anyone in the country. They have showed signs of greatness, I just wish our record reflected it.
thanks, THF!
as for calling Coach K “ratface”, I expect the Rat Society of America is already contacting their lawyer…..
It would be interesting to see a statistical analysis of results following called times-out. My gut reaction is that there would be no effect generally unless the run was scheme related.
What I mean by this, is that sometimes a run can occur because one team is failing to address what the opponent is doing properly. There is a certain way that teams practice to beat a press. If a team is simply either not recognizing what the other team is doing, or failing to remember how to execute, then in that situation, perhaps a time out might work.
I am not sure how often something like that happens at the echelons at which UNC and Kentucky play, however.
Besides that, I don’t know. UNC once again failed to play both halves. UNC and Kentucky both looked ragged and the teams are probably at similar levels considering UK had the home court advantage.
With respect to Ginyard, it is interesting to note what Williams said in his book about Jackie Manuel. Williams basically said that Manuel started to send a message to the team about defense and I believe that is probably why Ginyard started in 2008.
Ginyard might be slightly better than Manuel on offense, but there is not a lot of difference there. If Jackie had not graduated in 2005 and been back in 2006, we wouldn’t have expected him to carry a lot more offensive load. We have seen a healthy Ginyard for three years and for one month this year. He is what he is on offense. I don’t expect much improvement.
The real problem down the stretch was that UNC did not have an offensive weapon to go to, which is so different from the past couple of years. The game was there to be taken, but we had no one who either would/could do it, both in terms of making big shots but also in terms of going in strong in the paint with a dunk and not getting it blocked.
That was just really ugly, ugly basketball on Saturday, on a cold depressing snowy day. I do guess that we tend to remember the past more favorably, but I wonder if other teams in UNC in similar circumstances looked this ragged and this up and down in terms of performance.
I am trying to think about years where we lost a lot either to graduation or the NBA. I guess we were kind of mediocre in 1985, although I think they did make it to the Final Eight. UNC was pretty mediocre in 1990 and 1996, with similar sorts of transitional squads, and perhaps in 2000. I won’t count the Doherty years. I honestly don’t think the 2006 team looked this ragged but maybe expectations were so low that year that I don’t remember it.
I think we are going to have a fine season, but I still have no idea whether we are talking Final 8 fine or Final 32 fine. Without some more indication of athleticism or scoring prowess, they really are going to have to jigger up the rebounding and defense, and stop turning the ball over, because they don’t have the same margin of error that UNC fans are used to, especially with the horrendous free throw shooting.
We always take pride in UNC players having good fundamentals and to me, making free throws is job one. Hansbrough and Lawson improved greatly in this area, so it is possible. I assume this is no secret to the coaching staff. You couldn’t foul UNC the last two years at the end of games because we shot over 75% from the line. 64% from the line is not going to cut it; we are getting close to Memphis territory shooting like that.
Yo, nick, no intention of offending anyone who, like me, may be of one of THF’s Mirriam-Webster cited ethnic backgrounds. Plus, my 21 years living in Manhattan revealed the incredible beauty that is the diverse fabric of our Humanity. I need to be more cognizant that internet posting does not relay the nuance so immediate in face-to-face conversation – that printed words stamp impressions that spoken ones modify.
But I do not believe you found no “particular interest” in my metaphysical comments, otherwise you would not have remembered it long enough/considered it significant enough to comment negatively, yes? As for my comments not being persuasive, I agree. They were not very well thought out nor expounded.
On the issue which triggered negative emotional charge: Wow! “Greaseball” is politically incorrect these days! How restricted we’ve become since “Grease” and all that title implied. Sad. That ball of grease that is on Calipari’s head has nothing to do with his ethnicity to me…but apparently does to others. Calipari is a smartass yankee, his affected slickness perfectly reflected in the pampered shininess of his ‘do. I see him – the same as Pitino – as a carpetbagging, self-aggrandizing opportunist. Donavan at Florida, ditto. All these wise guys are of the same lineage. They do not belong in university sports; they are not educators; they could care less whether their players get an education and/or graduate. They are simply gaming the system. UK alumni are sucking for The Resurrection. It didn’t work with Pitino and will not with this latest yankego in his greasy-sleazy persona.
I have no doubt that Roy passed on final recruitment of John Wall because of the possible censure by the NCAA and the reflection that would have on Carolina Basketball. To thus pass on such an otherwise superlative player is the higher game. Life excellence. Class.
THF: I trust that the use of “yankee,” “wise guys,” and “carpetbagging” are acceptable. But I’m not sure, since they are meant as offensive terms…although some may take pride in there embodiment. Not that pride is a virtue.
Back to Basketball. I stand by my observation regarding Roy’s MO with team energy. That and inexcusable free-throw shooting earned an “L.” On the “thug it up” surmising from Johnathan, maybe it’s just semantics…Ramp it or Thug it, it’s still about defense and that is what UK changed after the 2nd time out, bottom line, yes?
Thank you, All, for Carolina Basketball.
Zoomba.
I am more interested in talking about free throw shooting and scoring, but I believe, to most people, Grease, was making mention of the wet look that even old Dean had for a while. Greaseball (is it one word?) certainly is not quite the same thing.
Sleazy probably would have been deemed acceptable.
Whether you call him sleazy, greaseball, or just plain ol’ sleazebag, that is exactly what John Calipari is… So you get no complaints from me, Russfuss, you’re just calling it like you see it.
Calipari hasn’t gotten two schools, UMass and Memphis on probation and is now fast working on his third. Which, speaks to UK’s coaching history…Let’s take a look…
Rupp—-Racist
Hall—–Cheat
Sutton—-Slimy
Pitino—-Sleazy
Smith—–Good guy, ran out of town..
Gillespie—Who cares???
Calipari—Sleaze, greaseball…
What a great tradition UK is carrying on…Ha Ha Ha….
Carolina’s titles have all been played against integrated teams. I believe that Kentucky has only won three times during that same period. I honestly think a lot of this stuff about, “oh, UNC was great in 1924″ or “Kentucky was great in 1948″ or whenever is pretty dumb.
Starting with Bill Russell, through Cincinnati and UCLA pretty much all the great multiple titlists had integrated teams. I still don’t understand how it is possible that UNC did not integrate its team until the late 1960′s. That just doesn’t seem possible to me, given that Jackie Robinson was playing for the Dodgers in the late 1940′s.
Anyway, who cares what school won anything before the advent of Bill Russell. It was all meaningless, much more so than in baseball, and probably equal to football.
Sports basically began in 1971 in college sports as a whole as this was the year when basically every school in the nation finally integrated in both basketball and football.
I’ll say it (albeit with shame): I’m a “grit-eater”…and from a long line of same…but we’re Americans first and foremost!
“I honestly don’t think the 2006 team looked this ragged but maybe expectations were so low that year that I don’t remember it.”
I think your fondness for Hansbrough and the 2006 team has distorted your memory of that season.
Yes there was the moral victory against Illinois (an average Big Ten team by season’s end) and the surprise victory at Kentucky (which lost 13 games that season). But the remainder of December and January was ragged basketball for the 2006 team until it all clicked vs. FSU in late January. Prior to that FSU game, there was the flogging in Los Angeles to USC in December, and an ugly stretch in January that included a 3 point win in a game played in the 60’s @ Virginia Tech, a shellacking at home to a Miami team that UNC was too slow to guard, and an ugly loss at a bad Virginia team. All of those teams were teams that had double digit losses and never even sniffed the NCAAT in 2006, and prior to the 11 game win streak to end the season that began with the Arizona game, Carolina was sitting at 11-5 and everyone was questioning whether they had the goods to make the NCAAT. So if that season did not have its “ragged” patches, then you need to educate me on your definition of the word “ragged” as it pertains to basketball.
Yes, the 2006 team could throw the ball into post to a superstar and had multiple shooters (even the PF Noel’s best offense was via the jump shot), so I guess the offense appeared more fluid than the current product being displayed by this year’s team, but making it seem as though the 2006 team was not ragged at times during their season is just plain forgetful or dishonest. Especially when you consider that this year’s team is trying to fit so many young players into new or different roles/positions and it is currently only the beginning of December, while the 2006 team looked “ragged” up until the end of January.
If this year’s team is still throwing the ball all over the place and still does not have decisive go to options on the offensive end with the game on the line, while still looking overwhelmed in a hostile environment at the end of January then I’ll tend to agree with you. But until then, you are putting the cart before the horse and giving WAY TOO much credit to an average basketball team with one superstar and a bunch of roll players that got on a roll at the end of the 2006 season.
Are we going to have to hear this same old rhetoric from you of how this team “isn’t as wonderful as the 2006 team” after every loss or can we just let it die here?
I will continue to call things like I see them.
In fact, I think I have said that I do believe this team is better than the 2006 team. I don’t expect my statements to be memorized but at least make sure you are attacking the right thing. Some of us were probably thinking this group would be closer to the 2007 squad and there is still a good possibility that they will end up in the Final 8, like those guys did. And yes, the 2007 team had its own issues, which surprisingly mostly came later in the season after a 15-1 start.
Ragged is not the same thing, necessarily, as “worse.” The 2006 team appeared to me, to have more precise offensive patterns, which apparently you agree with. I am not sure about turnover levels. Somebody can check the box scores if they have time.
Fundamentals, like free throw shooting, were not particularly strong that year either, but better than this year.
Some teams may be better and yet be more inconsistent. Other teams may not be quite as good overall and yet play pretty much the same from game to game. Obviously, only someone patently oblivious could deny that the inconsistency from game to game, and even more so, from half to half, this year has been noteworthy.
I think this year’s team has the talent to play with anyone in the country and have a decent chance of winning. I do not think that was true for the 2006 team, which only beat one top 15 team and that was in a rival game against Duke.
2006 team after 9 games (7-2):
17.8 APG, 16.6 TPG, 66.0% FTS
2010 team after 9 games (7-2):
20.0 APG, 17.1 TPG, 64.2% FTS
It should also be pointed out that UNC’s first game was 10 days earlier this year than it was during the 2006 season, costing the team at least 7 practices and 1 exhibition game. UNC’s schedule through the 1st 9 games this season has also been significantly more challenging.
The 2006 team continued to grow and mature through the season, and as has been mentioned previously, really didn’t hit their stride until they were 16-18 games into the season. If this team does the same, it is likely that they will make a very deep run in March.
Of course, you have to look at pace as well, plus this year’s squad is playing tougher teams early on.
At the same time, this year’s squad did have a seasoned Ginyard back plus Larry Drew who played significant minutes last year, plus a highly touted freshman, while in 2006, they had Bobby Frasor, Wes Miller and Reyshawn Terry, none of whom had ever played much more than garbage time, and Frasor, not at all.
So, yes, I did expect less ragged and inconsistent play than we are seeing, but even if they lose to Texas, having three losses with two tough road games and tough tournament games is nothing to get real upset about. If you look at Pomeroy and some of the other ratings services, we are actually doing better in Chess this year than in Point spread, which has not been the norm during Roy’s tenure at UNC.
But I don’t think UNC has ever been a “just win, baby” program.
Hey, Brasil gets criticized when they win the World Cup in soccer, if they don’t look great doing it. I think the standard is the same at UNC in basketball (maybe in women’s soccer, too!).
We are known for playing uptempo, high scoring, precise basketball with an emphasis on teamwork, shot selection, defense and fundamentals.
To whom much is given, much is expected.
Is anybody else as tired as I am of seeing Deon refuse to make a strong move to the basket play after play? His face-up jumper has gotten better, I’ll give him that, but I can only watch him spin away from the hoop and settle for a low-percentage no-look shot so many times before I get royally pissed off at him. As far as I’m concerned, if you’re playing the 5-spot, you have to take advantage of a moving defender and dunk the damn ball. He’s been in the program 5 years now–its time man up.
My high end expectations for this team are to compete with dook for the regular season title (so a top 2 finish in the league), make the ACC Tourney championship game, and reach the Elite 8. Less than that would not necessarily be a disappointment, but I think this team can achieve these goals. And as much as I hate these early season struggles, I think they will pay dividends once ACC play begins. I still say that in the ACC we will not play a better team in a more difficult environment than the UK game. Cameron may be a tougher venue, but UK is a better team than dook.
I’m not sure what my low end expectations are, but hopefully I won’t have to find out.
“Hey, Brasil gets criticized when they win the World Cup in soccer, if they don’t look great doing it. I think the standard is the same at UNC in basketball (maybe in women’s soccer, too!).”
I agree, I’m just saying you’re jumping the gun on passing judgment because the final product is still in the development stages, just like the 2006 team was during this same point of their season. The difference is this team has a much higher ceiling than the 2006 team, which basically milked its talent for all the achievements it received that season.
“Is anybody else as tired as I am of seeing Deon refuse to make a strong move to the basket play after play?”
Deon is just not that type of player; he is a finesse post player that is one of the best post players in the country when he has his jump shot going, and struggles to find plan B when his jump shot is not going down. The issue for Carolina is that all of their post players are really finesse players on offense. They don’t have the guy, ala Tyler Hansbrough that would take it strong to the basket and get fouled. Carolina had the luxury in the past four season of throwing the ball in the post to Tyler Hansbrough, when they were struggling on offense, and Tyler would either make a basket through contact or get fouled and make the free throws. Carolina’s post players currently have trouble with all of those: scoring through contact, drawing fouls, and making free throws.