The Heels watched a tape of the game en route back to Chapel Hill. Larry Drew had this to say about one of Tim Brando’s asinine attempts to flower up the broadcast with…well…I have no idea. And neither did Drew hence the laughing.
Feels good to win eh fellas?
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So long as we’re doing tweets, here’s one from Strickland after the game:
DStrick01 “Dam it feels good to win!…gotta keep this up”
Yep.
The State people thought he was biased towards UNC.
Whatever happened to the kid on State’s bench who looked like Danny Partridge? I guess he must have finally graduated.
It was great to see the win and improvements.
I am a surgeon and we have a saying: “you’re only as good as your last case”!
So it isn’t hard to see the project ahead. They were up after earlier wins also. Maybe this time there will be more maturity and a team effort.
I have to say that Will Graves continues to impress me by his improved effort, rebounding, and better shot selection. He took what was coming to him and he did not force up a lot of crazy shots (just a few).
Go Heels.
Tim Brando and Mike Patrick are the two worst broadcasters in the game, just hard to decide which one is worse.
Are we ready to ask for Billy Packer to come back?
boulderHeel,
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The only good commentator is Jay Bilas. The rest are absolutely horrid, Dick Vitale being the worst, imo. When he had to have surgery on his voice box a few years ago, I think that God was trying to tell him something.
Ahhh…it’s been a long time since I posted…good to be back.
I’ve put up with a lot of my “knowleadgable” friends dissing this year’s freshmen since the Syracuse game…and at times I’ve struggled to keep the fire burning with this group. Alas, I stand behind them and I know that they will (at some point) develop into a very good team.
I am just curious to know how you all think the next couple of seasons will shape up.
Right now, I’ve actually got Ed Davis as probable to come back next year. Here is what I am seeing:
PG: Drew or Strickland/Marshall
SG: Strickland/Bullock/Watts/McDonald
Wing: Barnes/Henson/Graves (he IS only a junior, right?)/McDonald
PF: Davis/Henson/Wears
C: Zeller/Davis
I’m in a bit of a hurry here, but that’s what I’m visualizing…thoughts?
I think that’s pretty close to accurate, though I’m less sold on Davis coming back, as all of the draft “experts” have him going in the top-10.
I think Henson will end up playing more PF (a la Hakim Warrick) than anything, just because UNC will have so many options in the backcourt, and especially if Davis is gone.
To be fair to these guys, we can see some of the risk that Zeller and Davis entail by staying. Zeller’s value is probably down. I would have said Davis’s is down, except all of a sudden he looked pretty darn good last night, to a level which really doesn’t come through the statistics all that well.
In terms of evaluating the sophomores, I think that Drew has greatly improved, while Davis has marginally improved, but may be about to step up.
Zeller’s career has been an utter disappointment, which is mostly something beyond his control. I don’t know whether he could have done something this year before his injury to increase his minutes, but I don’t think 2nd team All ACC was an unrealistic goal for him this year and he was nowhere close to achieving that before he got hurt.
I don’t think there are enough games left for Henson to salvage this year in terms of expectations with respect to his recruitment level, when compared to the other top five guys we have seen like Lawson, Ellington, Wright, etc. If Roy ever lets him play more than 7 minutes, he can still help us make a run. Maybe Roy wanted to make sure the kid didn’t go pro? Who knows?
The other guys have ended up being okay, with McDonald and Strickland making real strides in the last month and the Wears being serviceable role players, (but certainly not the Lopez twins in terms of impact), but the main point is that if this truly was a “top five” class, it was top five based on breadth, and not on elite talent ready to assist right away, as was the class with Wright, Lawson and Ellington.
Even looking at the lower rated 2005 class, by my count, Hansbrough, Green, Frasor and Ginyard averaged almost 40 points a game in 2006, while this year’s freshman, Strickland, McDonald, Henson and the Wears are only averaging about half that many points.
Barring some miracle, no matter how you try to package it, this class is a disappointment this season in terms of expectations. That is just the way it is. It has nothing to do with some people being better fans, or smarter or having faith in this year’s guys. Maybe it is Roy’s fault. But the numbers are fairly stark.
If the current freshmen do somehow end up the season with numbers approximating those of the 2006 and 2007 classes, then get down on your knees and give thanks to the Lord, because that means UNC is likely to win pretty much the rest of their conference games from here on out, and then we can all blame Roy for playing Ginyard too much and for bringing the freshmen along way too slow.
“The Heels watched a tape of the game en route back to Chapel Hill.”
Did they get stuck in traffic? Isn’t it like a 15 minute ride?
Tim Brandt and Tim Brando in a fight to the double death.
You just left out the Booker family basketball dynasty transfer to Chapel Hill!
I worry about expectations for next year because I doubt that Davis will be back. So, we’d need Zeller and T.Wear to step up big time to fill his shoes. I’m not sure they can.
william, I think Henson is the only real disappointment in this freshman class, and I know I personally did not expect this freshman class to have the same production levels as the 2005/06 or 2006/07 classes. A couple things were apparent from last night about this year’s freshman class:
1) Stickland is a budding star, he has quickness, athletic ability, confidence, no fear, and is improving his shot (hopefully free throw improvement will soon follow). Strickland just needs more minutes and more time at his natural position to flourish.
2) Henson has been a disappointment only really because of the high expectations and top 5 ranking. If he was ranked more on ability to contribute versus long-term potential, the expectations would not have been nearly as high. As last night shows, Henson’s upside is unlimited and although he will not even scrap the surface on becoming a complete player this season, he still has some special talents (length, shot blocking, and athletic ability) that can help Carolina win basketball games the rest of the way; especially when Henson focuses on being active on the defensive end and attacking the basket on the offensive end. But one thing is clear, once Henson adds strength and weight, and can be the athletic power forward who can step out to the wing versus being the awkward big man trying to play small forward, WATCH OUT.
3) McDonald has performed as expected. He appears to have a solid stroke on his jump shot, good quickness, and the potential to be a good perimeter defender. He’ll be a very good 4 year player and the potential to develop into an All-ACC caliber player.
4) Wears are big, tough, and sound fundamental 4 year players. Both have nice outside touches and will be solid post players that should improve gradually every season.
Yes, the class has been a disappointment to date, but most of that is attributed to so much being expected of Henson. I think many Tar Heel fans were expecting a talent that was a little more advanced and refined in the Kevin Durant mold. But even with the disappointment to date, I still think this class still has a positive future and will do great things in Chapel Hill, but maybe at a little slower pace than initially anticipated.
scl11 –
Spot on. The only freshman disappointment is Henson. He has the tools to be fantastic, but he’s not even close right now.
Strickland was highly rated and, for my money, even better than expected. As I was saying on another thread, he is the only one I’m certain will play in the NBA. Davis is likely, but needs more strength.
I have been very pleased with the Wears. On a team not as deep as ours, they would get a good deal more time. They have done nothing to disappoint.
Regarding Ed Davis:
He has had a few good games and moments. But he isn’t even vaguely ready to play against NBA inside dudes. No way.
He probably will improve next year. He is not a lottery pick this year. Period.
His free throw shooting is poor.
He gets up and down the court slowly.
He has to be really close to the basket to score.
He needs to work on strength.
He tends to make his offensive moves very slowly. He is not an explosive player.
These are all areas that he can improve on. He is contributing a huge amount to UNC this year.
But really. Look at the inside opposition in the NBA.
Not yet!
This is hysterical:
The Charoltte Observer web site has a clock counting down the seconds to the Duke/UNC game. With some graphics as well.
What, no mention of “Danny Green, he’s baking soda” by none other than Kellogg last year ?!? Vitale gets my vote…ears bleeding, fingers on chalk board
Sounds thought Charlotte steps ahead of ESPN perhaps; Or jumping the shark…ridonkulous either way
AZACCFan – I agree with you – he’s not ready to succeed in the NBA. He would get easily pushed out of his shooting range (which is about 3 feet) by anybody who is bigger and stronger then him (which would be… oh, about 100% of the post players in the NBA)… but that won’t stop some stupid GM (who thinks he’s a genius) from burning a lottery pick on him.
850inExile aka UNC RAJ:
They maybe foolish enough to do that, but I doubt that Davis and his family will go along. He needs more time. They have to know that. He isn’t Ralph Sampson or Tim Duncan.
History shows there’s plenty of fools drafting on ‘potential’ or future status or however you wish. And there used to a Red Auerbach quite happy to trade with them fools…
We all know in the same NFL draft, the Colts picked Archie Manning II and SD picked Ryan Leaf. Somebody surely got fired for that.
Yeah, I would agree with you, AZACC, about being “ready” for the NBA. Ed needs strength, more moves, and an increase in his intensity level to get much PT at the next level. But you know how the NBA works, it is attracted to potential. A lot of players are drafted who are not ready because the NBA can be as much, or more, of a change from college as college was from high school. It can take quite a while for players to learn the NBA game and grow into their bodies. In the era of underclass movement to the pros there seems to be a lot more emphasis on securing prospects as opposed to proven players for fear that if you don’t get them, someone else will. Right now Ed is in the top 10 of practically every mock draft you can find, fairly high in the top 10 in many of them. So if he finishes the season on any kind of an upswing, it seems like he’s got a good shot at the lottery. A string of bad games, an injury, or a really bad season for a players’ team can change his status very quickly though.
LarryS:
I hate to bring it up, but we have been going through a really tough season thus far.
Davis has had some solid play.
But he has also had his share of games with poor production. I really like him, and I think he will continue to improve.
However, he is not ready for the NBA.
I don’t think he is either. What I’m saying is being ready and being drafted are two different things, and I wouldn’t bet against him being considered for a high draft pick if he has a good year.
I dislike Clark Kellogg but I loved that baking soda quote.
I agree with everything, Rath and SCl had to say about this year’s class.
It has nothing to do with how much I personally like the players and I think we all agree that regardless of any of our current opinions about performance, they are members of the University of North Carolina community now and we will all be rooting so that some day people might talk about the great class of 2009, who improved more over four years than any other group of incoming freshment.
” the main point is that if this truly was a “top five” class, it was top five based on breadth, and not on elite talent ready to assist right away, as was the class with Wright, Lawson and Ellington.”
SLAM-DUNK.
I wish I could have summed it up in but a few sentences as you did. Well done, sir.
I would still disagree with anyone who considers Davis to be a lock to enter. Remember the words, “I like it here in Chapel Hill.” Those were the words of Ed Davis last year when his “draft upon potential” status could not have been higher. With another year, Ed’s stock has dropped, but not for poor performance; rather, reality has been actualized by the fact that Davis’ on-court play could never match the idealized vision that so many had after he looked so dominant coming off the bench in the NCAA tournament. Ed Davis could only seek to raise his stock by playing on a team next year that will be significantly better.
I agree with the presentation of Henson as being a player who is ranked more on potential than pre-college skills. He was not Kevin Durant on day one, nor is he even a Warrick-type who can slide around the basket on defense. His time will come, though. I still believe that John Henson will be a truly special player for North Carolina basketball. No question.
Dexter Strickland is a budding star, and that has been fun to witness…often a silver lining. I’m truly glad to see this, in that Strickland was ranked quite high as a junior, only to see a senior year injury cause his ranking to slide.
Now, let’s talk a little more next year.
1. There is going to be a battle for point guard. Look, Reggie Bullock might earn a starting spot at shooting guard. Dexter Strickland can create, and we might need to go in that direction, since Drew seems to have peaked in the “playmaking” arena. We’ll be so loaded at shooting guard that I can’t see Roy not toying with idea of either letting Dexter start, or even giving Kendall Marshall a shot. You have to distribute and create…and if nothing is there, you need to be able to shoot. Who amongst the trio of Drew, Strickland, and Marshall can best do that at this level? Go ahead and asnwer that one.
2. Where does Will Graves fit in next year? Clearly, he will come off the bench, but at which position, the three? I certainly hope that we see Henson shift to the four, although I hope to see a few more pounds on that frame of his. Graves probably best serves the team at the three, but not as a defensive liability!
3. How significant of an impact will Harrison Barnes actually make? He’ll start. He’ll get looks. He’ll play hard, and play smart on both ends. I am hoping that he brings a tenacity to the practices that everyone attempts to emulate. I hope he is willing to take on leadership burdens that players like Ginyard and Thompson seem to struggle with. The current team has no identified leader. I’m hoping that Harrison is truly special in that department.
4. Interior depth. Zeller’s career is developing a pattern. I (for whatever reason) cannot recall whether Roy has one more scholarship to give the 2010 class, but I wouldn’t shy away from recruiting some size. Ideally, Roy would land a player to give solid minutes off the bench and to spell mainly Zeller, but not simply go in and hack away.
5. Pressure. With or without Davis, the pressure will be back next year. After witnessing the struggles of this year, I actually miss the pressures of expecting to win every game. Like it or not, when you bring in talent like Barnes and Bullock, and add it to returning talent such as Strickland, Henson, and quite possibly Ed Davis. Perhaps 2006-2007 comes to mind. 31 wins, and an opportunity to reach the Final Four will be back on the plate for the taking…I just hope they are hungry enough. After a 19-13 season (or something like that), in which we have already witnessed a significant separation with UK in the all-time lead in wins, just when it looked as though we were closing the gap…as well as the boot from the Top 25, next year’s group had better have the hunger to TAKE IT.
It all depends on how they deal with the pressure when they are expected to win, and then how they keep the hunger alive to pursue a championship for the course of 35-40 games. The now-beloved 2009 squad seemed to get hungriest when it mattered most. Let’s see some more of that action in 2011.
Somebody who closely follows recruiting, why don’t you give us a ranking of these various UNC classes with regard one, to breadth and two, elite talent:
2005
2006
2009
2010
2011
2005: #4 ranked class by Scout. Five players, four in top 100, 1 in the top ten(Hansbrough)
2006: #1 ranked class. Six players, six in the top 100. 3 in the top ten(Wright, Lawson, Ellington)
2007: No commits
2008: #5 ranked class. Four players, three in the top 100. 1 in the top ten(Davis)
2009: #3 ranked class. Five players, five in the top 100. 1 in the top ten(Henson)
2010: #3 ranked class. Three players, three in the top 25. #1 player in the class(Barnes)
2011: No ranking yet. Two players so far. Both in the top 20. #2 player in the class(McAdoo)
“Big bad Bill is sweet william now…”
I had to load that up after the Airplane comments on the last post. I keep the jive wav on my desktop for easy access at all times.
So your recruiting analysis, requested above, is based purely on point in time analysis or do you want the benefit of hindsight? I assume you are looking for point in time so we can make our own assessment.
Your posts are always good and the points well thought out but your voice is all over the place lately. It’s a good thing but a very different view versus last year, provided we review your basketball posts.
One thing that I do frequently is look back to the same point last year or two years ago just to see what the tone and mood was on the board. There was so much nit picking last year it was painful at times. I know this year has been tough but the same passion and emotion goes into these topics regardless the level of play since we are emotional and passionate about something we love – Carolina basketball.
From 2008 – Turnovers:
A quick refresher just in case you didn’t stay up all night reading Multiple Offense and Defense: Dean Smith calculated possessions by totaling possession-ending stats such as FGA, FT trips, and turnovers. The free throw trips stat is what makes calculating possessions tricky, because you can’t do it simply by looking at the box score. Percent loss of ball simply shows what percentage of a team’s total possessions ended in a turnover. In general, the 15-16% range is a good offensive performance–Roy Williams’s last three Final Four teams have each averaged over 17%.
According to stats kept by the coaches, Carolina has fallen into that range (16% or lower) in 11 of this season’s 21 regular-season games, including a 13% figure against Arizona. The Tar Heels’s current season-long loss of ball percentage is 16.48%.
I checked the UVA tickets available and they are decent.
Section 211
Row M
That’s up top but a decent view of the court.
That means there are quite a few seats available from THB.
Obviously, there is no penalty for being wrong or anything, I was just wondering whether people thought we might be getting more “instant elite” talent in the next two classes, with Barnes and the others coming in, and also what people think about how long such type might stay. It seems like we have plenty of good players already to round out our roster, although Zeller’s health and viability is becoming suspect.
It is a fine line between a Ty Lawson who might stay 3 years and a John Wall or Derrick Rose who only stay one year. Even if a Wall or Rose is marginally better, you would rather have the three years with Lawson. With a Larry Drew type talent, however, you would probably opt for the Wall or Rose type player.
Despite any “instant offense” impact some of the newcomers may provide, the one consistent theme seems to be that noone of em come in ready to play Championship caliber defense(I keep hoping Roy is going to find some HS Coach defensive guru to recruit from, but I digress.) So to project any combo’s, while relevant offensively, doesn’t even begin to take into account the defensive progression of the more seasoned players imo. I like Roy’s system for College, compared to say, a Calipari, as I dare say do most UNC fans.
william,
Based on what the experts say the answer is yes. Barnes and McAdoo should be instant contributors. Bullock and Hairston could be as well.
Of course, Bob McAdoo only played one year, his junior yeat for UNC. Many have wondered what it might have been like in 1973 when UNC finished second to undefeated NC State, if McAdoo, the NBA Rookie of the Year, had returned. You would have had two much closer top teams in terms of talent, not to mention third place Maryland, which had Len Elmore, Tom McMillan and John Lucas.
It sounds like the son could be as good as the father, at least in college….
Bob is James’ uncle.
Barnes will probably stay for two years, despite all the fixings of a one-and-done, talent-wise. He seems to be really interested in establishing himself both on and off the court at UNC. That’s why Kay wanted him so bad, because he would signify that Dook still got those part-athlete, part-student guys.
Anyways, Drew is going to be around for 2011/2012, and Strickland should be. If Barnes, and most likely Henson, are back for ’11/’12, with the addition of McAdoo…oh boy.
Some of you might call my speculation(s) crazy, or signs of a Tar Heel fan once again lusting for dominance, but, ladies and gentlemen…
Roy Williams may be building the ultimate beast.