Because the longer this goes on the more I feel like I am in the movie Airplane!
Quite a day here at THF. Tempers flared. Someone got banned. I got hate email which has never happened before.
It is funny how all it takes is 21 games of bad basketball to turn a fan base, some of whom might still be getting skin grafts from getting 3rd degree burns on Franklin Street into..well…Wolfpack fans. This is proof positive just how nasty losing can be and how short our memories get as fans. Sports fans are the ultimate “what have you do for me lately” constituency in the world. Some of that is the nature of the beast. One season ends and another one begins. We compartmentalize these seasons so the last one has almost nothing to do with impacting how we enjoy(or in this case suffer) the present season. Still, given the level of success UNC has enjoyed you can’t help but think that maybe we all might be over the top in being overly upset at the state of things. Except the level of success is a two edge sword. It is immensely gratifying to be able to watch great teams for 3-4-5 years and equally disappointing to watch a team that falls well short of that.
The really disturbing thing is it really does not matter how reasonable a fan can be, no one can avoid succumbing to negativity when the team is playing this badly. When all you do is criticized sooner or later that criticism takes a nasty edge. I joked earlier this week about UNC fans going through the five stages of grief where this team was concerned and it is true. The commentary here has gone through a variety of stages until we reached today where it appears we have gone into a meltdown mode usually reserved for IC message boards.
Of course the irony of all of this, from a blogger’s point of view, is that losing is good for traffic. The dirty little secret about the internet is that by and large it is one gigantic gripe fest. Message boards and blogs exist primarily to give people a voice. Opinions must be rendered! Points argued and counterargued! Someone is wrong and darn it I am going to prove it! This is the nature of the internet and the more there is to complain about the better.
So what’s my point? Nothing really other than to sort of plead with you guys to do your level best to make your criticisms grounded in facts and without deninigrating the players you are criticizing. I have said this before and it bears repeating. These guys wear NORTH CAROLINA on the uniform and they invest serious time every day to play basketball for the university. Regardless of their performance on the court that sort of commitment warrants a basic level of respect as does the accomplishments of the coaches. Going forward, do your best to remember that. Also remember that everyone on this blog is entitled to their opinion as long as it is delivered with a modicum of class and respect. While I understand tensions are high the best rule to remember is don’t write anything you would not be absolutely willing to say to the person’s face.
In the meantime let me cheer you with this completely asinine quote dropped by Steve Lavin on ESPN Tuesday night during the Michigan St-Wisconsin game when discussing the Spartans’ 2009 NCAA Tournament run calling it:
….the most impressive four game run of any team in the tournament
Yeah, that might be the dumbest thing I have heard this season. Not only did UNC’s entire six game run trump almost every other national champion in the 64 team save Duke’s 2001 title. In particular the four game run from the Sweet Sixteen to the title game was dominant in every way. Plus, I am not sure where Lavin found four straight games MSU was so impressive in considering they only beat #10 seeded USC by five in the 2nd round, won three games then got rolled by the Heels in the title game.
No wonder Dexter Strickland thinks ESPN talking heads are full of crap.
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^^Marcus I’m a Carolina fan I don’t give a sh&t about Kansas right now………….
Marcus, that also gets the the stat of every 5-star recruit that Roy has ever coached has gone on to become a 1st round pick.
But scl11, if the question is about the UNC program developing players, what Roy did at KU is far more relevant than the career paths of Capel and Lang, is it not? Those players played under a completely different coaching staff and there is no correlation whatsoever between their stagnation and any experienced by the current roster.
“some of that was Green who often times said too much to the media about things Roy wanted kept in house.”
Yes only Roy should be allowed to air dirty laundry to the media…….
Players who have improved while at UNC: Serge Zwikker, Brad Daugherty.
Of course, I have a list of players who I didn’t think improved during their college careers at UNC, Jeff Lebo, Walter Davis, and Kris Lang.
C. Michael, that was just to get in the Bonnie Berstein joke, yes it is relevant, I just used Capel and Lang because I think they compare well to TWSNBN and Thompson this year from a Carolina perspective.
I think self-confidence is this team’s biggest issue–hopefully some of Strickland’s will permeate to the rest of them, and like one of my all-time favs (Hubert) they will have to find it in themselves. Roy has a tendency to “throw them under the bus” but if I recall from his book, he was a tad like that in HS too. He also sees the positives in all of them when lots of others only see negatives. Dean once threw a player utb after a frustrating Tourney loss too.
Who are you referring to 52bgj?
Danny did turn out fine, and I am sure that as most 20 year olds are wont to do, he made mistakes. I am not sure that I have ever heard many coaches in any sport, pro or college, make statements like Roy made about that shot against Georgetown.
If Roy said something like that about an NBA player, he might be missing a few teeth. Not to mention the hyperbole. I think I have seen shots like that pretty much every single NCAA tourney.
Now, if we want to talk about why the kids in the Carolina Blue uniforms apparently didn’t know what to do in tense situations down the stretch against Georgetown, I might have been too hasty in disregarding some of the critiques about our coaching.
Ranzino Smith–Tudor even did a column about it.
Syracuse Loss 1987, when he took the last shot?
Bobby Knight??????????????????????
you know I don’t even remember the game, but that was probably it. RS was a favorite of mine, and he was the only 3 point shooter on that team, who got more bench time imo, than was warranted. He was inserted in desperation, and then criticized afterward for his shot selection. Admittedly rare for Dean, but notable nonetheless–and Caulton rightly took him to task for it.
I always said I wouldn’t send my son to play for Bobby Knight. I am not sure that I would want my son playing for Coach Williams either if he were subjected to “clean” verbal abuse.
I may be a Quaker softie and I know Dean and Bill had their flaws, but they never engaged in the verbal eruptions, four letter words, and on court controversies that Matt Doherty and Roy Williams did.
^you & me both!
scl11,
Gotcha. Makes much more sense, now. I guess I need to stop taking THF’s post titles as marching orders…
The irony about Knight is that Sean May would have gone to Indiana had Knight not been fired. He comes to UNC to play for Doherty who was apparently over the top to the point Scott May was orchestrating his ouster behind the scenes. Just to be clear. Knight would have been okay with the Mays but Doherty was too much.
Well, I edited mine, but my vote is for the demeanor that Smith and Guthridge showed on the bench.
LarryS –
“rath, you can rain on my parade all you want to. I have a very good umbrella.”
The rain isn’t coming from me. It’s coming from what we’re all seeing when we watch the games.
Wearing a smiley face doesn’t work. Thinking through what’s gone wrong might.
Oh yeah, Rath I’m familiar with malt shops, though I’ve never been to one, I was just ribbing you a bit about the age thing.
It is interesting going back and reading some of our posts from 2 years ago. Some of the stuff I had forgotten but it was probably still influencing me about how I perceive certain issues in the program. Some of this stuff, like Stickergate, I have kind of gone back and forth on.
http://tarheelfan.wordpress.com/2008/04/27/statements-from-greens-father-and-roy/
SCl11, by the way, your dirty laundry quote, above, was pretty funny….
The problem with Knight is that he’s a little crazy.
The problem with Doherty was that he was immature.
Roy’s players, past and present, seem to be loyal to him, as far as I can tell. I prefer dignity and restraint in coaches, which is one reason I have such a high opinion of Dean Smith. I would give Roy a B in that department — not bad, but with room for improvement.
Marcus –
No problem. Aging ain’t all bad. I can now blame on something else the flaws I had all along.
Roy hasn’t thrown any chairs or tossed anyone in a trashcan or beaten up any police officers yet, unlike Bobby Knight. Knight does have one more NCAA title, however….
“I am not sure that I have ever heard many coaches in any sport, pro or college, make statements like Roy made about that shot against Georgetown.
If Roy said something like that about an NBA player, he might be missing a few teeth.”
Funny you should mention that, because PJ Carlisimo was a college coach who went to the NBA who was known as a screamer, much worse than Roy. He did that to Latrell Sprewell one time and ended up with fingerprints on his neck and almost a 2X4 upside his head.
“^^Marcus I’m a Carolina fan I don’t give a sh&t about Kansas right now………….”
Scl11 I didn’t recognize the line at first, but when you pointed it out, I thought that was very funny.
Poor Latrell. He was another misunderstood soul. He had his entire neighborhood on his payroll and nobody really understood that he actually did need those extra millions….
“Wearing a smiley face doesn’t work. Thinking through what’s gone wrong might.”
rath, I am understanding your responses less and less to the point I don’t really know what the heck you’re getting at. If you want to say I’m in denial, fine. I can think through this process ’til the cows come home, and there’s still nothing I can do about it. Neither can you. My choice, and option, is to try and enjoy the process regardless of what it yields. That’s why I raised my hand when you asked if anyone can enjoy this. We’re just different that way. If you want me to be miserable, like yourself, and think that’s the only way any rational person would be, forget it. Is it so hard to understand why someone might respond to this whole thing differently than you ?
william/rath: what’s the skinny in Northern Va on the Wizards now they’ve removed the six-shooters? I heard rumblings of Antawn going to Cleveland but probably just a rumor.
Big Game –
I haven’t heard anything, but I’ll keep an ear out and tell you if/when I do.
LarryS –
“My choice, and option, is to try and enjoy the process regardless of what it yields.”
This is a little like saying, “My choice is to try and enjoy the trip to hell regardless of how hot it gets.”
Virginia fans might have enjoyed Sunday night. But no Carolina fan could have. If and when there are more such torturous games or stretches of games — which, given what we’ve seen up to now, is likely — they will be equaly unenjoyable. And that’s putting it mildly.
As respects us Carolina fans: You can maintain faith in our tradition this season. You can wish the players well this season. But you cannot enjoy this season.
Big Game –
This is what the Washington Post said about it this morning. I didn’t know about it until I looked on-line just now, since the newspaper is still in the driveway — under the latest half foot of snow. And this is supposed to be the Confederacy.
“It’s been well documented that the Cavaliers’ infatuation with Antawn Jamison has been rekindled. What’s been underplayed is the reason behind it: LeBron James is the one driving the team’s pursuit of Jamison, according to a source, and Cavs GM Danny Ferry – as usual – is trying to appease the King. A couple of problems: The Wizards want a young asset in return, and Zydrunas Ilgauskas – while a fit salary-wise – doesn’t fit that description. The sensible piece to include in the deal would be J.J. Hickson, whom the Cavs are reluctant to give up. But if the Cavs got Jamison, what value would Hickson be to them as their fifth big man? One scenario that is believed to be under discussion would have the Cavs hoping the Wizards bought out Ilgauskas after the trade, using some cash added to the deal by Cleveland. That way, the Cavs could sign Ilgauskas back on a minimum deal, giving them the player James covets (Jamison) and a 7-foot-4 insurance policy for Shaquille O’Neal. The Wizards would have to ask themselves if getting out from under Jamison’s contract and adding Hickson is enough to justify a deal that would get them under the tax next summer, but not under the cap.
• If the Cavs can’t get Jamison, Indiana’s Troy Murphy is Plan B. And yes, there’s a Plan C — Andre Iguodala. Whereas the Cavs’ front office believes Jamison could help them win a championship this year, Iguodala would be more of a long-term solution. And he better be, with four years and $56 million left on his deal.” ###
Of course all this is complicated by the Arenas mess. He’s been suspended for the season and no one seems to have any inside word on what his future is here. I think a Jamison trade is more likely if the Wizards conclude they have to start rebuilding. Jamison is still very productive, but he’s not a spring chicken at this point.
Things are further complicated by the death, a month ago, of Abe Pollin, the Wizards’ majority owner, and the uncertainty of what’s going to become of the team at all.
In other words, the status of the Wizards is strikingly similar the the status of everything else in this town: No one’s in charge, but everyone owes some gargantuan debt he can’t pay.
The winter would be just awful with out our TAR HEElS to watch ,have not missed a game in about ten years had to order ESPNU, to see the games at the first of the season. I know it looks bad but I know it will get better. One more thing I heard the reason they did not want Wall is he was in some kind of trouble last year. GO Heels
I know, tarheel girl. I have had to get the sports package for several years to watch the Tar Heels. Now this year it is included just when our team is hardly worth watching anymore….
“In other words, the status of the Wizards is strikingly similar the the status of everything else in this town: No one’s in charge, but everyone owes some gargantuan debt he can’t pay.”
^heh–how true. thanks rath–sounds like a stretch, but I would love to see Jamison play with LeBron, and have a crack at a ring before the sun sets on him.
oh, and contrary to news reports, Arenas’ stunt was a PR ploy to get the name changed back to the original.
William, You know they are always worth watching.
They might trade Haywood or Jamison, even though those are probably the two best players they have.
I am not sure if they are worth watching or not this year, tarheel girl, but I will be watching tomorrow night. We could get to a point where I start tivo’ing and watching later during the days on the weekends. We have some really good free museums up here in DC, including the fairly new Native American museum, which I have not visited yet.
It looks like Kansas is going to squeak out a lackluster victory against Colorado….
Regarding the psychoanalysis of RW that some on here seem so determined to discuss, I’ll bite.
I do think Roy is an interesting character to watch. I’ve been fascinated with his behavior ever since the Kansas “I’m staying” week. A lot of fans are still upset about that. Personally, I’ve gotten over that, but I’ll admit that there are other ones that still make me wince: “I don’t give sh** about North Carolina,” Stickergate, “Coach your own d*mn team,” “Cause we f***ing suck at it,” Fangate, and Roy’s little pinkie (x a billion) are extremely irritating if not nauseating to a lot of fans. Now, certainly many Duke fans find K’s behavior objectionable at times, too. I just never expected I’d feel that way about one of our own coaches.
To clarify (which is always necessary), I don’t want anyone else as the UNC’s head basketball coach, but it’s important to remember that Roy Williams is not a above criticism. Neither is Mike Krzyzewski, Jim Calhoun, Gary Williams, Bobby Knight, or Billy Gillispie, etc, etc…
“By the way, since January 1 (seven games), opposing starting backcourts have outscored Carolina’s starting backcourt by an average of 37.1 points per game to 15.7 points per game….” a 22 point margin…..
FYI: 15.4 pts of that 22 point margin is on the SG, 2 starts by Strictland and 5 by Ginyard….Wonder why Adam Lucus decide to look at the backcourt rather than just the SG position.