Roy Williams during his postgame press conference:
I told them if they take this and learn something from it and change then you can still get something. But if you just say “oh well” you’re not going get anything from it. You’re not going get anything from it if it hurts if you don’t change and we’ve got to change our behavior. Even the last play of the game I am trying to run a play for James Gallagher because he hasn’t scored all year along. We can’t even listen and pass the message along to the other people. But if you can take something that’s this bad and hurt from it and learn from it and change, then you got something you can take. But if you don’t change then you are not going to get anything from it.
Now let me say upfront that Roy Williams has made his share of mistakes with this team. The handling of John Henson and Dexter Strickland are the foremost. We could also spend a day and half talking about whether mistakes were made recruiting. Roy’s part in this mess is evident. That being said, the above quote screams at how crappy the attitudes on this team have been. If the head coach is hoping that a 32 point loss to an archrival during the last regular season game might be something they can use to change their behavior that tells you all you need to know about this team. In other words, the loss to College of Charleston, the humiliation at Clemson, vs Virginia, Wake Forest, Georgia Tech on and on and on were not enough bring some sort of change to how the players on this team conduct themselves. Hey, maybe getting ripped by Duke will do it!
On the bright side, there is one hope. Maybe we will be able to forget this season as quickly as we forgot the national title run of 2009.
![[Bloglines]](http://www.tarheelblog.com/wp-content/plugins/bookmarkify/bloglines.png)
![[del.icio.us]](http://www.tarheelblog.com/wp-content/plugins/bookmarkify/delicious.png)
![[Digg]](http://www.tarheelblog.com/wp-content/plugins/bookmarkify/digg.png)
![[Facebook]](http://www.tarheelblog.com/wp-content/plugins/bookmarkify/facebook.png)
![[MySpace]](http://www.tarheelblog.com/wp-content/plugins/bookmarkify/myspace.png)
![[Technorati]](http://www.tarheelblog.com/wp-content/plugins/bookmarkify/technorati.png)
![[Windows Live]](http://www.tarheelblog.com/wp-content/plugins/bookmarkify/windowslive.png)
![[Yahoo!]](http://www.tarheelblog.com/wp-content/plugins/bookmarkify/yahoo.png)
![[Email]](http://www.tarheelblog.com/wp-content/plugins/bookmarkify/email.png)
It was during the Texas game. ESPN presented it completely from Roy and UNC’s angle and I think even said the guy was drunk. I posted on Twitter at the time that UNC must have a great PR maching getting ESPN to only air their side of the story. Or it was more ESPN not doing basic research which would have taken five minutes of reading WRAL’s web site to give a more balanced equation. That, however, would rock the boat and ESPN does not do that.
^^BuonRotto, not necessarily winning. For me its about at least trying. That Dook game was the last straw. I’m not going to criticize anybody for unloading on these guys now. They deserve it. I watched the 2006 UNC at Dook game on ESPN Classics. For guys like Bobby Frasor, Wes Miller, Quentin Thomas, Reyshawn Terry, David Noel and Byron Sanders to go into Cameron and fight and scrap and hussle for 40 solid minutes …and then for all our precious little McDonalds All American Big Shots to go in there this year and wave the white flag after four minutes… that was the last straw. That was infuriating. Absolutely infuriating. And a clear testament to the character of these players. They are quitters – and quitters don’t belong at Carolina. If they don’t want to compete, they should go somewhere else.
Beginning all the way from before this season, the adulation, the comparisons (some even saying surpassing) to Dean Smith, Roy developed an infallibility complex, or as they would say in the mountains of NC “he got too big for his britches”. Maybe this season was required, if not anything else but for a stubborn man to learn humility and also learn how to be a little flexible.
I told THF that Roy will not change his defensive strategies for the Duke game, and sure enough he did not, resulting in back to back to back 3 pointers to start the game. For a team that is short on confidence, plays lousy offense and has no leaders, it was all downhill from there on.
The question now is does he change anything next season or doubles down on his strategy that he cannot implement without speedy PGs. We are getting a top-notch PG next year, a fighter, but he is far from being a Lawson or Felton when it comes to speed. Don’t get me wrong, Marshall is an excellent PG when he is allowed to play at his own pace, this run-n-gun thing won’t work through him. If the coach decides to implement a strategy the is developed around his players next season, which is going to be the real rebuilding year, then the team will be a success. But if the coach decides to fit square pegs into round holes, we will have another difficult season.
thank you 850inExile aka UNC RAJ , that is exactly the point I am trying to get across.
My takes:
1. Carolina has to accept a NIT bid because the bad PR for not accepting would be worse than a lousy team losing another game to end a lousy season.
2. If I or anyone else mentions like we did this preseason that a Roy Williams team has a chance to be good because they could be really good DEFENSIVELY please slap us silly. If defense is the first word out of your mouth to describe the strengths of a Roy Williams team then prepare yourself for failure. Roy needs tempo, shooting, and guys that can run and finish for his system to be successful; an efficient offense is the key to success with Roy’s system and defense is just the variable that moves the bar to how good one of his teams can be.
3. As I’ve said before, I believe Roy will take stock of his performance this season and come back better and stronger than ever before. But their is no way Roy gets anything but an F for this season and the only reason it is an F is because that is the lowest grade available. And as Roy reflects on his missteps this season and looks for ways to improve hopefully some of the public personas will improve as well. Maybe a little humility will replace some of that arrogance and grumpiness.
4. Also as I’ve stated before, besides Henson and Zeller I could care less if any other player decides to leave the Carolina program after this season. I also like the potential of both DrewII and Strickland and think they could be very good players for UNC as soon as next season, but I don’t know if they can reach that potential in their current environment. So we’ll see, but besides Henson and Zeller I would not be crying a river if any of the other underachievers decide their basketball future lies with some other program than UNC. I also consider Davis gone for the NBA, otherwise, I’d be excited for him to return minus any of the effort and attitude rumors.
5. Goodbye and good riddance to this senior class. Yes from what I can tell Ginyard and Thompson are very good people and have represented the University of North Carolina quite well over their 4-5 years on campus. But they were awful basketball players who never developed past their freshmen years and are root causes #1 and #2 for the cancers that spread throughout this team. The sense of entitlement and willingness to cast the blame or point a finger versus looking within and being the first to make changes to benefit the team portrayed by Ginyard and Thompson were one of the most disappointing things I’ve witnessed in all my years watching Carolina basketball.
Now here are two concerning facts that beckons questions about coaching:
First, Deon Thompson was always a soft player, an awful rebounder, and horrible defender (how can you not learn how to hedge a high ball screen after playing at UNC for 4 years) who did not show much if any improvements from his freshman year, but was a 2 year starter for Roy Williams. Secondly, Marcus Ginyard was an overhyped defender that was a black hole of offensive skill and ability since his freshman year yet he was a 3 year starter for Roy Williams.
Just like with the issues about Ed Davis’s effort and attitude that we addressed earlier on this blog, this generates some questions about the coaching and player development that is going on in Chapel Hill. If Roy has such a detailed grading system and player development program then how do these 2 seniors start for multiple years with such blatant deficiencies in their games that never improve from their freshman year? We’ve heard here many times on this blog from C. Michael what great things Roy does with 5 star recruits, and it is clear Roy is very good at getting the best out of great talent. But my concern is why does it not appear that Roy is developing and improving the 4 star talents like Frasor, Thompson, Ginyard etc. over a 3-4 year period and getting the best out of their ability and developing these 4 star players into well rounded basketball players versus being bit role players by the time these lesser talents are seniors?
scl11, I would disagree with your evaluation of 4 star players under Roy. For a lot of these players, the motivation to become a better player must come from within. I have said before the Deon was graded higher than Luke Harangody is his recruiting class, yet Harangody has been in the talk for the Naismith award, he is the best rebounder and scorer of ND.
But leaving that aside, look at Danny Green (a 4 star recruit) back home. I remember once Jay Bilas saying that when he saw Danny the first time, he thought he would never make it past practice. Danny probably had more hurdles in his way, a coach that did not believe in his abilities and preferred his pets with far lesser talent, his family problems with his father, yet in spite of all that he kept on improving his game year after year, showing leadership on and off the court as well. That sort of motivation must come from within, it cannot be taught.
For both Marcus and Deon, the excuses were one too many. While Marcus did get hurt, his saving grace on the team was that he was the “teacher’s pet”. Whereas Deon was an excuse making machine. First he had a fragile confidence, then he was being restrained under the shadow of Hansbrough (which was the most ridiculous excuse), then he is only a 4 star recruit, a role player being asked to step up. All those excuses one after another just hid the fact that he was content with his game and did not see any reason to improve himself. Why should he? The coach bought into those excuses and in spite of showing no hustle and displaying an aversion to contact he was always on the starting line-up, and he had his legion of fans willing to make more excuses for him.
74, So if the players like Thompson lack motivation to improve, why do they continue to start or play key roles all while being immune to being thrown under the bus by their coach in public. Is Roy running some type of basketball charity that I’m unaware of? Danny Green is a good example, Danny developed in spite of the coach trying to promote and play a lesser talent ahead of him only until natural causes (Ginyard’s injury) were able to override the coach’s intentions allowing Green to flourish in his final season.
My point is Dean used to take some of the lesser talents and groom them into quality well rounded and sometimes All-ACC talents by their senior seasons (Bucknall, Chilcutt, H. Davis, Zwikker, etc.). On the other hand, Dean also was blasted for being a guy that held the great talents back, but the majority of Dean’s players were much better and well rounded basketball players when they left the program versus when they arrived. What Roy is doing now is very comparable to what K does, which is get the best out of the great talents and then just use the lesser talents as role players in your system vs. developing the lesser talents into good basketball players by the end of their careers. One difference is that Roy still shows loyalty when the role for certain players are no longer required and carves out places for them in the rotation (see the 2009/10 season), where as K usually casts those lesser players aside when a role is no longer needed.
***Update:
On the Green point, I’d say Roy tried to fit Green into a role as a scoring version of Ginyard, but Green continued to develop his all around game on his own to the point everyone questioned why he did not start ahead of Ginyard his junior season. Then after the injury, Green game was able to flourish.
^ That unfortunately (or fortunately) is a personality trait. K runs his team like a business operation holding his players accountable. He still puts a lot of emphasis on practices and is not beyond playing favorites with certain players over others. But that said he does identify players who are willing to rise up to the challenge, Scheyer being a prime example.
Roy takes his mentorship role differently, however being human he also plays favorites to certain players over others. I don’t know the dynamics of his relationship with his players, but I bet this season will make him take a long, hard look at his role as the steward of this program. I don’t think any player will be able to coast through year in and year out without showing effort, not just in practice, but on the court as well.
If Roy needs to inspire these kids for the future, just play a tape of the Half time show, where all the talking heads at ESPN clowned on UNC, and if that doesnt make them mad, they need to go.
850, I’m with you, meaning that I was also not really down on the team until they had nothing to give in the Duke game. Now I’m very down on them too.
I dunno though. I just look at each guy and like each one, their talent, their demeanor, etc. I won’t jump to conclusions about things like Deon’s lack of outward “fire”, Ed’s poker face (in the classical sense of that term), Drew’s body language, or Marcus’s lack of production. I think some guys are low-key and that’s fine. Some guys are down and show it, and I can understand. Some guys try really hard but don’t have much to show for it. They each seem like good guys with good skills and are trying to get some perspective and dealing with a tough season. I didn’t see any one individual quitting*** per se. They each seemed to try, but I think they just don’t believe in each other, and either think they have to try to do everything themselves or are waiting for someone else to join them on the same page. I won’t assume anything worse about them or their skills as individuals, but they simply do not cohere either in execution or attitude.
*** OK, sitting here thinking about it, I think what I saw was a player or two “quitting” like when I got really exasperated with the rental wet saw I tried to use yesterday. You could see how frustrated and dejected Drew was, and it was more obvious for him since he’s on camera so much. I can be angry at this team, but I can completely relate to his individual state of mind then. I just can’t bring myself to point a finger at him or any other individual.
This does, however, come back to my one criticism of Roy which is to use the timeout a bit more often to just get guys’ heads straight again on occasion. I think the sub-out and expecting them to collect themselves while the game passes in front of them is asking too much of most folks. That one conceit of Roy’s, however, is not enough of a reason to scapegoat him either.
Everyone is responsible, and while the individual may be in it, the team clearly isn’t. I don’t know what else to say about that, or how to fix that, so I’ll shut up now.
Roy needs to ask these guys why they came to UNC. Heck, if I could say something to these to their face, I do exactly that. I’d ask them “Why did you even come to UNC?” I’d ask them straight up: If you didn’t come to UNC to play hard against Dook then why did you come to UNC? If they didn’t come to UNC to fight hard against every ACC team then why did you come to UNC? If you didn’t come to UNC to take everybody’s best shot and hit them right back then why did you come to UNC? If you didn’t come to UNC to embrace the teachings of a HOF coach then why did you come to UNC? Or did you expect it to be easy? Maybe you just came to UNC to enjoy the ride while somebody else won a National Championship for you? Was that what you were expecting when you came here? Some other player would bust their butt to carry on UNC’s 100 year legacy and you’d just hang around to share the limelight? Is that why you came to UNC? Then, the other question I’d ask them is “Why are you still here?”
I think the team is also sometimes as good as the students want it to be. At UNC some people make a big deal of supporting the team come what may even when the team is not showing any effort and coasting through. To give an example, earlier this year when Singler was having trouble scoring, the Duke Chronicle published an editorial saying the K should bench Singler, which of course drew K’s ire and rightly so. Now look at our team and the people who are in the starting lineup, their numbers and the way they played. Not once did anyone write anything criticizing any of the players. Instead, the entire repertoire of some players IMO is built on myths based on fawning articles like this one. While that might be very noble, it also creates a false sense of security in some of the players who are less willing to improve their game. Just as cajoling can be used to motivate players, fear is a good motivator as well. If the players are unwilling to improve their overall game and don’t take responsibility for their poor performance repeatedly, I think their status on the team should be re-evaluated.
“Maybe you just came to UNC to enjoy the ride while somebody else won a National Championship for you?”
Worked for Ginyard, Thompson, and Frasor, so probably looks like a good gig if you can get it.
“Yet not once did anyone write anything criticizing any of the players.”
If the head coach can get an opposing fan kicked out of the arena, imagine what he could do to a young aspiring journalism major…….
On the half time report during the ESPN broadcast the talking heads were laughing and making jokes at UNC expense, that is worse than any story any Daily Tarheel journalist could produce. UNC is now the NJ Nets of college basketball, were teams bring their A game to avoid the embarssement of losing to “these” heels.
They were laughing at all the players, I lost a lot of respect for ESPN and the time and effort they put forth to bury the heels, but hey we deserve it.
Boy how ridiculous does that article on Deon Thompson cb74 linked to look right now?!? Note to Adam Lucas, don’t include that fluff piece in your resume when you go to apply for a real job. You’ll get laughed out of the interview!
I can’t even say I’m mad at the talking heads at ESPN for laughing at UNC. I mean look at that game. The effort we put forth WAS laughable. The Lady Tarheel basketball team could have played as well as that(well maybe not this year’s team). The blue team could have played and wouldn’t have looked any worse then we did against Duke. That kind of performance invites people outside of the program to turn us into a laughingstock.
I generally don’t care for negativity on these blogs, and I certainly think it’s wrong to kick somebody when they are down. But I honestly don’t know what I can say that’s positive at this point. HMMMMMMMM, at least we don’t have a losing record yet? Or maybe, at least we are still better then NC State? Henson looks like he might be star (but then so did Ed Davis last year). Seriously, that’s all I come up with right now.
How did this team beat Ohio State and MSU and come within a hair’s breath of beating KY in Rupp Arena? Where did THAT team go? And when I can I expect them to come back?
Again, that bulldog with the 24 foot vertical leap, that’s impressive.
Sad season, headed for a sad end after a sad, sad Duke game. I think everyone recognizes that this season has been over for some time but as a fan you have to nurture hope. That only builds expectations when you see some progress but it’s just not going to happen this year for so many reasons.
I do think it’s impossible or even rational to make statements about how good we will be next year or that we can’t turn this ship around with just a few new players. We have a tremendous amount of data on this season and player performance and we still don’t have answers, guessing, hoping or writing off next season is just silly.
Commenting & blogging can be fun and there is a tremendous amount of good information on this site and many others. Tough for those of us that don’t fall into the genius camp but we try hard every day. Behavior is different online and that’s okay, we aren’t at a bar having this discussion or in the Sunday school annex either. You can attempt to enforce some standard of discourse but it’s a slippery slope and the community has to care. The individual has to care. That said, it’s like playing a game online, people taunt and act tough, childish and ridiculous because they can. So they do it, period.
This season is almost done, we should take the NIT bid if we get, any additional practice time is good and you have to be in a position to do your best. The only people not wanting to accept an NIT bid are fans, not the staff, not the players and not the coaches.
Finally, I mentioned Football as it is a major sport, I see some images at the top of this blog concerning football. I don’t blog on this site, I comment so this is my only venue to get people to think a little about football. If we had just beaten Duke and were number one in the country I would do the same.
As to baseball, it’s pure relaxation and the venue is great, the parking is pretty easy for UNC and everyone here needs some calming down time.
Get what you can out of the remainder of the season and prepare yourself for the next one. I think we have a lot to look forward to next year. See below for one game you might enjoy in a great location with a player we should see in the blue next year, keep the faith.
NCHSAA STATE BASKETBALL CHAMPIONSHIP SCHEDULE
SATURDAY, MARCH 13, 2010
96th ANNUAL MEN’S NCHSAA BASKETBALL CHAMPIONSHIPS
Class 2-A Men — 2:30 P.M.
Kinston High School Vikings (27-4)
Vs.
West Caldwell High School Warriors (27-2)
http://www.nchsaa.org/newsletter.php?mode=display&archiveID=1166