***bumped to the top***
UPDATE[THF]: Larry Drew has posted an apology of sorts on Twitter.
I’m sorry yall, I jus been bored out my mind lol. To all the real carolina fans out there, jus kno I see nd I love all yall for the support
I guess he realized how much he stepped in it. My biggest problem with what Drew said is he lacks the credibility and capital with the fan base to call them out. If we were talking about Danny Green saying something like this, it would be different because his actions on the court, his attitude and leadership give him leeway. Drew does not enjoy that leeway.
Original post after the jump.
Uh-oh, this is not going to sit well with the anti-Larry Drew crowd.
The News and Observer’s Robbi Pickeral posted in the ACC Now blog about whether or not UNC will even qualify for the NIT. Buried at the end of the piece is a question posed to LD2 about those UNC fans who want Carolina to turn down an NIT bid even if it were offered. This was Drew’s telling response:
“To those people, honestly, to those people, I would say that they can’t have their way all the time. Some people are just so spoiled, man. Especially Carolina fans, just because, you know, the whole tradition. It’s not necessarily a bad thing, it’s just the way it is. But to those fans: Yes, we haven’t been performing up to the standards of the usual North Carolina basketball team, but we can’t be perfect all the time, and we’re human, too.”
To his credit, Pickeral notes that Drew said he wants to continue playing so the team can improve and maybe salvage some of the disappointment of the season. And I’m sure he is bearing the weight of the frustration of the season, as has been noted many times here that as uptight as we get as fans, we are not living this disappointment like the coaches and players are.
But there’s none of what you would like to hear him say that would give you hope for the future – “we’ve got to take responsibility”, “we’ve got to get back to work”, etc., as was heard from John Henson. Drew is basically telling UNC fans to get over it and not to worry about, you know, the whole tradition. Really not what you would want to hear from the starting point guard at the University of North Carolina just 11 months removed from its 5th NCAA title, and may be a revealing glimpse into why the team has gone 5-13 since January.
The N&O’s Foul Shots column (usually written by Joe Giglio but uncredited online) sums up what will probably be most Carolina fans’ response to Drew:
Of all of Larry Drew II’s miscues this season, calling Tar Heels fans “spoiled” may be his biggest. No matter how true that may be, for the love of Jason Capel, don’t say it out loud.
If anything, that bar has been set high because fans are used to watching players a heck of a lot better than Drew is.
The good news for Drew is that he won’t find those kind of expectations at Pepperdine next year.
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I’ve got no problem with what Larry said. He wants to keep playing so they can get better, and maybe salvage some better feeling about the end of the season. Isn’t that taking responsibility, and getting back to work?
Certain fans, on the other hand, just want to quit, because they’re tired of dealing with their pain and frustration. Sounds like Larry’s approach is a little more mature.
I don’t think he’s saying that fans “should not worry about it”. No one in their right mind would not agree that UNC fans are spoiled.
Larry Drew II = T.J. Yates
This isn’t as bad as everyone is going to make this into. He was responding to spoiled fans who want us to turn down the NIT bid if offered.
This is no where as bad as Roy wearing that blessed Kansas Jayhawk sticker on national TV at the championship game!
I would not insult Yates that way because regardless of how bad Yates may have played, he took responsibility at the end of the season for his performance. Secondly, Yates’ performance issues were not effort or attitude related.
I have no problem at all with what LD said at the end of this very frustrating season. I might have found it out of place at mid-season, but it’s a fairly human to vent a little. I mean there’s been enough venting around this site to fuel a small rocket. Let it out, move on to the next thing. If he comes back, works hard over the summer, and brings a good attitude, then that’s all the responsiblity I ask.
Do we really expect these kids to always say and do just the right thing, in the same way that we expect them to perform just the right way? Those are some demanding standards most of us could not have met had we been very young people in similar trying circumstances.
It would have been interesting to see if John Henson would have finished the season with upbeat tweets had he been the object of such intense criticism as LD.
THF:
You’re right: at least, Yates stepped up and took responsibility for his play.
My analogy is that both seemed to specialize in throwing the ball to guys wearing the opposite color, especially during crucial moments.
how about this as a novel concept. both parties can be right. often I find that when a charge like this is leveled, you can tell the veracity of it by the reaction of the one at whom the charge was directed. LD was feeling the heat, and so instead of taking responsibility, he deflected the criticism. likewise, when his charge hit the mark, it predictably angers the ones at whom it was accurately intended—the others don’t seem to be bothered by it.
He can say anything he wants. The problem is not with what gets said or left unsaid. The problem is with performance on the court.
I don’t recall Tyler Hansbrough having a lot to say. He let his effort and production do the talking. That’s the only kind of talking this team needs.
Less yacking. More baskets.
Until a player makes a positive contribution to Carolina’s tradition he would be wise not to suggest that fans have been spoiled by that tradition. When LDII leads UNC to the raising of another banner (no – not “Championship” banner – a simple “NCAA Tournament” banner would suffice), fans will react more objectively to him calling them spoiled. Until then, don’t be surprised when people like me react by asking: What has Larry Drew done to spoil UNC fans?
The reason he calls us spoiled is because a lot of fans (including many here) want us to turn down the NIT bid if offered. I mean I don’t think he came up with the term “whine and cheese”.
Larry Drew II = Sam Cassell II (Steph, you wrote it at the same time as me – LOL)
But seriously, I think that this issue has some complexity to it. I can certainly understand LDII’s frustration at the questions and at that one in particular. It’s easy to feel cornered with such pointed questions such as that one. It’s natural to bristle and let a little emotion show. UNC fans are spoiled, that part is not without merit – we are used to winning a lot of games.
However, there are 2 things that bother me with these comments:
1. As a sophomore player at UNC, you should be well aware of the expectations that the fans have, and use that as motivation to set the bar. You know the expectations before you sign your letter of intent. I would argue that the expectations were MUCH higher last year, and the team responded with a title run unlike any other. Back to the point, LDII should understand the expectations as being a part of the UNC tradition of excellence, and not whine about them. It’s like asking your sister to cut your hair and complaining about the bald spot on top – you should have known better. This goes DOUBLE if not TRIPLE for the point guard.
2. I’m bugged by the tone of the response. Unlike Henson, who makes no secret of his desire to improve and bring the climbers back to the top of the mountain, Drew shrugs his shoulders and tells us that it’s our fault for expecting so much. Even if you don’t believe it, son, just say those words convincingly enough to make us “spoiled fans” happy. To me it sounds like he’s OK with the results, and has no desire to improve them. That’s a poisonous attitude, especially from a point guard.
I’m not ready to bid LDII farewell and good riddance – yet. I do want this attitude of his to punch a one way ticket to durham, but I think that if he can get his head straight he can be a great asset to our Tar Heels. Of all of the positions on the floor, the PG should be the most committed to improvement and excellence.
One thing I did notice is that Drew said, “[W]e can’t be perfect all the time.”
Who asked them to be perfect all the time?
No one asked any such thing. It would be nice, however, if they were competitive most of the time, a standard they manifestly failed to meet. As THF correctly points out, we are 5-13 since the beginning of January. The decided majority of our games in that span have ranged from somewhat close losses to mediocre teams to humiliating losses to good ones.
On that record, no one — certainly not the fans — has been talking about “perfection.” There has, however, been a good deal of talking about consistent effort, floor spacing, perimeter defense, outside shooting, inside shooting and throwing it into the fourth row.
In other words, there has been talk about competent basketball (or more accurately, about the all-too-frequent lack thereof). What the heck did Drew THINK we were going to talk about?
unc steph –
The reason to turn down the NIT if offered is to avoid the embarrassment of a losing season — one of the very few in our history. I do not believe that is a sign of being “spoiled” (which is, after all, merely a pejorative for “having high standards”). I believe, instead, that it’s a sign of prudence.
Rath-save me the whine and cheese. You gotta have some faith in your team in the NIT if we go at all.
Prudence schmoodence.
^^^Do we really want the types of players that are more concerned with avoiding embarrassment than with going for it and competing, finishing on a more positive note? You know, like “C’mon coach, just give us one more shot at those guys. We know we can beat ‘em.”
I’m beginning to think fans are more worried about the team embarrassing them than about embarrassing itself.
Maybe that’s what LD was getting at.
Let’s see, we are not 8-8 in ACC, but we are 5-11, in most of those losses the team was either blown out, or let winnable games against lesser talented teams turn into bad losses. The fans did not expect a magical run to the championship, they did want a Lawson type performance from LD2, they did not expect a repeat of 2008-09 or a 2006-07 season, instead most fans hoped to get some sort of a 2005-06 season, where the players showed heart and effort and refused to get rolled over. Need I remind the apologists for LD2, the 2005-06 team was not ranked in the preseason, this team was. What LD2 is essentially saying is that expecting effort from this team (really from him) is like asking too much, it’s asking for perfection. This is the perfect example of an under-performing player setting the bar so low for himself, that any time he does not show effort all he needs to say is “hey I am human, I cannot be perfect”. All the fans want is for the players to play out there like they care for the team. But then again Pepperdine might be a better school for excuse makers like LD2.
1. Remind me what our record was in the three seasons before Yates was the started QB? I’m not happy with Yates over the last season but he’s got a few records and has taken us to a bowl game that last two years. I don’t see how anyone can equate Yates with Drew. Losing program to winning program, post season play, football at a basketball school. Are we spoiled after one good season, yes. I left out him taking responsibility for the results, note he didn’t say others needed to step up and commit, he took it all. A world of difference from Drew, Deon and Marcus.
2. Drew, come on – do they get media training? I’m still angry over the slow dribble up the court and the lazy turnover…that’s the most recent anger, the list is long this season.
On the bright side, when I asked my six year old son if he was ready to go the game today he said – “Is there good bbq?” Pretty much anything can happen today and I’m good.
Additionally I found out that Time Warner is providing some of the high school playoff games on via Carolina OnDemand. I haven’t tried to access the menu through the train wreck that is the guide with Time Warner but maybe after seeing Bullock today. I’m tempted to load up and drive to G-boro for some low cost ACC tournament games but without the Heels playing it’s just not the same. I would like to cheer for the U though, hard to imagine.
unc steph –
“You gotta have some faith in your team in the NIT if we go at all.”
I had plenty of faith until 5-13 beat it out of me.
Reality counts.
“Avoid the embarrassment of a losing season…” – to late.
unc steph –
“Prudence schmoodence.”
That’s how passes wind up in the fourth row.
BBLB –
Point taken. I should have said, “…avoid the embarrassment of a losing record.”
About Larry and the slow dribble. I wasn’t very pleased at first but as I think back I think he was trying to show the team some silent leadership in the way he was extremely calm under such intense pressure in bringing back the ball slowly. I mean did it really matter at that point it wasn’t like anybody was stroking threes for us.
I think LDII has taken too much flak for his play on the court this year. His problems seem to be more about his attitude than his play. If our front-court had played to even half the level of what was expected, the back-court play would have been good enough to get us to the NCAA. But if I had as many passes dropped, or made a good pass only to lose the assist because my teammate couldn’t finish a simple layup, and yet I was getting most of the blame, I’d probably have an attitude problem, too.
I also agree with LDII about the type of fans who want to turn down an NIT bid. Concerned about a losing season? Grow up, this is a poor team. If you get a chance to compete and get better and don’t take it, then you are losers, regardless of your record. It would be the ultimate embarrassment for this team to get an NIT offer and turn it down. Ridiculous.
Again – what made me angry is that statement is way to bold to be coming from a guy who hasn’t accomplished anything. LDII does not have the resume to say something like that and not get ripped for it.
I kind of like this “bitches-brew” that is boiling. I think LD has the physical tools to become a damned good pg next year for us, but with Marshall coming on, he will indeed need a new level of mental toughness & smarts (as will the rest of the team) to get back to a level of National prominence. I can’t predict whether they will have the smarts and grittiness, but unlike a lot of others, I do believe the talent is there-correxion–I know the talent is there! But, with a season this bad, there is going to have to be a complete attitude purge. Will LD (or any others for that matter) have the will to go through that process? Just a “new group” won’t get us there—a new group combined with seasoned players forged in the furnace of a disastrous season & steeled to the task “could be” a very potent combination.
Big Chief- I’ll second that.
^^What he said
haha–maybe LD should take in a Clay Aiken concert to learn how to man up
sorry, couldn’t resist the fat pitch
Come on, is 16-17 really any worse than 16-16 is? I mean, are we all going to feel so much worse about this season if they are 16-17? There is just no logic there; the season, by UNC standards is pretty bad, regardless. However, what is lost in this argument is this: if UNC rejects an NIT/CBI bid tomorrow, the season is done, which means the coaches can have no more official practices until the 1st Friday after October 15th. If UNC accepts the bid, they at get at least a couple of more practices (and maybe 10+) to work with the team. For a senior laden team, that may not be big of a deal, but for a team looking to next year, it could be huge.
Big Game –
I agree that Drew has talent and I don’t want him to transfer, simply because we’re thin at the position. On the present record, he would be a decent/good 15 mpg sub. I don’t see him leading us back to big-time success, however. Part of that is because, as Doc once put it, Drew does not pass the “sniff test” for a top-tier PG.
There are two seperate issues here: 1) Whether UNC should accept an NIT invitation and 2) LDII calling UNC fans spoiled.
1) I said in a post on a previous thread (sometime last week) that UNC would look either arrogant or scared if we turned down an invitation to the NIT, so we should go ahead and play.
2) Until LDII leads a UNC team to an NCAA tournament appearance, he is going to sound way out of place talking negatively about UNC’s tradition or fans.
that’s fine rath, but if that represents the extent of your faith in him, (or any others), then don’t cheerfully jump back on the wagon next year when/if they finally start living up to expectations.
ps–I don’t want him to transfer either, but if he does, then he wasn’t the right guy for the job. lol–really, UNC fans can almost be classified this year as “Ginger or Maryanne”.
I have never heard of a sniff test. I personally don’t want to sniff anyone.
C.Michael –
Yes, having a losing record is worse than not having one.
It’s not that much worse, sure, since, as you point out, it’s a bad season one way or the other.
Having additional practices in March for a season that will not begin for another eight months does not advance the ball much. The main reason for this is that there’s just too much time between now and then. The second reason is that it will be a very different team then (with at least Thompson and Ginyard gone, perhaps accompanied by Davis and Drew; while we will have three important additions). And the third reason is that there’s not much evidence practice is doing a lot of good. As Roy himself says, they don’t get it. One given to a sardonic turn of mind might think that this team needs LESS practice.
I just don’t see how, given what we’ve seen, we’d want to see more. It would be like the 33rd re-play of a bad movie.
^^ I hope LD2 improves himself to become a competitor instead of making excuses. In general, players who are quick to make excuses instead of taking responsibility for their poor performance, rarely improve over time.
^then why not say that instead of making yourself look bad in the process—soooo much different & much more balanced.
off topic, but is anyone else looking forward to “The Pacific”?
^^^^ Not wanting to see more and refusing to see more are different.
If we play in the NIT, will you absolutely, positively not watch?
Big Game –
For four long months, all of us have been on the “when/if they finally start living up to expectations” regimen.
After a while, “when/if” wears thin.
It would be one thing if our play had improved over the season. It didn’t.
We can’t make the team better simply by wanting them to be better. They have to start performing. It has nothing to do with my expectations or those of any other fan.
When we lost our first two ACC games last season, and the fans were in an uproar, did Hansbrough start mouthing that the problem was faithless fans? If so, I sure don’t recall it. Indeed, I don’t think he said much at all. What he did was go buck it up and start winning.
No one expects Drew (or anyone) to be Hansbrough. But this team squandered Hansbrough’s spirit.
“I hope LD2 improves himself to become a competitor instead of making excuses.”
On this, I think we can all agree, and I don’t really think that it is too much to expect. Larry Drew did not light the world on fire this year, but he was not as bad as a lot of people think. He ended the season with an oRtg (which drop considerably since he injured his finger) that was just about where Bobby Frasor was as a freshman. More importantly, even with the drop the last 6 weeks, it still marks a tremendous improvement over last year (which most will admit was terrible). If he makes a similar jump next year, which is the norm for PGs in Roy’s system, then you are talking about a guy with an oRtg in the 110-115 range, which would rank in the T20 of the ACC (this years’ ACC POY had an oRtg of 110). Even if he only improves half as much, then you are still talking about a T50 oRtg, which should be fine if he has a couple of more offensive threats around him, and a legit backup who can play 15-18 mpg.
In one way, all of this talk, and the previous rumor, may end up being very beneficial for UNC. If nothing else, if Drew stays, it will be because he really wants to be at UNC (and put in the corresponding work), as transferring would be the easy way out.
LarryS –
I’ll probably watch. I have a weakness for bad re-runs. But that doesn’t make them any less bad.
Big Game –
Well, I’m looking AT the Pacific, if that helps.
rub it in will ya rath…although we do have sun & 70 here for a change. at least I’ll get some yardwork done today (if I’ll get off here) see ya & have a great “Pacific day”!
@CMichael, I get your point but one thing I always wondered, Larry had one whole year practicing not just against the best offensive PG in the country, but also with an NC team. How many other freshmen or sophomore PGs had that opportunity? Why did he not make full use of that to improve his decision-making, passing and scoring abilities? I always sensed a sort of lackadaisical attitude and complacency in the way he approached his game. He will become a better player once he changes that.
i’ll just remind the gallery what the stats say is POSSIBLE.
1 fewer turnover a game…ONE…and LD2 is the #8 PG in the NATION in A/T ratio.
hard to imagine, especially another year wiser, and with the guys maturing, and the guys coming in, that one fewer turnover isnt possible.
***
add 1 assist a game and subtract 1 TO, and he’s #2 in the country this year, with over 200 assists, which is great.
^^ Good point, though decision-making, and all the other things you have to do in real-game situations are much different than practice. Add to that the pressure of being the main (and pretty much only) PG, after not much previous PT, and it’s a little more understandable. He still has a lot of improvement to make.
On a side note, and not to make excuses for LD, his shooting did a Jekyll and Hyde precisely when he injured his finger. Hard to know the effect on his shooting, though, and LD will probably never mention it. One could hardly say it was all about the injury/taped fingers, but I do feel it at least deserves a mention.
Before injury:
44.4% 3 pt. Avg.
73% FT Avg.
After injury:
23.5% 3 pt. Avg.
42.5 % FT Avg.
cb74,
You’re hitting on one big thing that needs to differ this summer versus last summer (at least IMO). Last summer, Drew went home and worked on his game (most notably with Kobe 2x a week). As a result, he improved HIS game, as it relates to HIS performance, which was most noticeable in his 3 point shooting. What he needs to do this summer is stay on campus so he can work on improving HIS game as it relates to his TEAM’S performance. As HTTE mentioned above, 1 TO a game can make a huge difference, and one of the best ways to improve on your turnover rate is to practice passing to the players who will be catching your passes during the season.
with the guys on the team next year, i dont care if he only takes 3 3s game and makes 1 or 2 and thats IT. way more interested in his passing.
Of course, team would never turn down an NIT bid (for PR reasons), but that doesn’t mean every single player and coach isn’t secretly hoping and praying the Wolfpack and Miami win today so that bid is never offered.
While LD’s A/T ratio is quite good it still does not make him an accomplished PG to compete against other elite PGs on that list. He lags behind the other PGs in scoring, steals and rebounds. PGs at the elite college level have to play well in all facets of the game.
^um, whoa.
Thanks for realizing what’s out of bounds, HTTE.
^^I’m thinkin’ THF would probably zap that one if he weren’t at the ACCT.
Got it for him, Larry! – Doc
“While LD’s A/T ratio is quite good it still does not make him an accomplished PG to compete against other elite PGs on that list. He lags behind the other PGs in scoring, steals and rebounds. PGs at the elite college level have to play well in all facets of the game.”
cb74, you make great points about how Drew isn’t a Lawson-Felton-Wall type that can hurt you both distributing the ball and scoring points, but having talent at the other four positions would help, too. Our two seniors were nothing more than role players, and UNC didn’t have anyone outside of Graves who could hit a three pointer (only at home, though) that got a lot of playing time.
To me, it depends on the team’s style of play; I’m a fan of having a PG be able to distribute the ball while not tearing it up in scoring, but you need a consistent outside threat in the college game. I think that was UNC’s biggest sore spot, especially once conference play hit.
It’s hard for me to imagine why any REAL Carolina basketball fan would seriously suggest we don’t accept an NIT bid. If anyone’s reasoning for such an abusrd idea involves “avoiding the embarrassment of possibly having a losing season,” then that person’s ability to reason is shot to hell. This is, was and will always be a losing season. One more number in the L column makes absolutely no difference.
if you take the Top 15 PG types…Vazquez and Hayes, Delaney, Scheyer, ISmith, RJackson, Landesberg, LD2, Stitt and Young, Scott and Grant, Shumpert, Kitchen, Gonzalez.
put them in order of ACC scoring and ACC assists 1-15 each, your Top 8 (combined rank) are:
Vasquez, 3 Senior
Delaney, 5 Junior and a scorer more than PG
ISmith, 7 Senior
Scheyer, 9 Senior and scorer
RJackson, 11 Soph
Landesberg, 15 Soph 6’6″ Scorer
Hayes, 16 Senior Scorer
LD2, 17 Soph
you can argue that everyone above LD2 is either more a scorer type, or is called on to score more. or is, at the very least, a Senior. the only one i would say might not fit is Reggie Jackson at BC.
and i’m not sure he even does. does any PG in the ACC have 7, 8, 9 guys that are out there on a regular basis, that he is expected to pass it to?
LD2 is one made 3 a game from being tied at an 11 ranking with Jackson.
@Andy, while reliable 3-pt scoring is good to have, a case can be made that a penetrating PG who is a scoring threat can open up perimeter shooters as well as other players by drawing a double team. An example is the Kentucky team, they are by no means a team that has good 3-point shooters, in fact their 3PM% is just a little better than ours, but what they have is a penetrating PG (who incidentally has a worse A/T than LD2) who can score and create his own shot. Essentially doubling on him when he is in the lane opens up the rest of the bigs and guards by creating space. But while talent has a lot to do with that, a lot of it also depends on effort, LD has rarely shown that kind of scoring ability.
I remember reading an interview with Quentin Thomas in the summer of 2005. He was asked what it felt like to win a National Championship. He said it made him want to work harder because he didn’t feel like he had really contributed very much. I never criticized Quentin Thomas again after I read that. It would be nice if Larry stays in Chapel Hill and adopts the same attitude this summer.
stats dont tell the story with larry, bc he was significantly out played by most of those guys on that list,
cb74, I think Drew has the ability to penetrate; the lack of outside shooting and the softness of our bigs really hampered that ability, in my opinion.
Wall can get to the hoop, but watch Kentucky’s bigs in action; always boxing out, and putting themselves between the ball and defender. They’re much more physical than ours. Some of our bigs would have a problem boxing out my kids. Even if Graves was still the best outside shooter we had, a much more physical presence down low would help out immensely as it would get Drew to the hoop much more than it actually happened.
JohnBB-
so glad you were able to use your large vocabulary today.
thanks, steph.
I prefer not to devolve into coarse locker room banter whenever I can help it.
I’m glad you can understand and appreciate the humor, unlike some of the over-serious persons up in here.
word to you.
marcus62660 –
“If anyone’s reasoning for such an abusrd idea [not going to the NIT] involves ‘avoiding the embarrassment of possibly having a losing season,’ then that person’s ability to reason is shot to hell. This is, was and will always be a losing season. One more number in the L column makes absolutely no difference.”
Then neither does one more W.
Rath- Do I take that to mean you support turning down an NIT bid? If so, I badly misjudged your intelligence. You’re missing my point…Whether it’s a win or a loss makes no difference to the season we’ve already had. To turn down an invitation is arrogant, cowardly and stupid. Coach Williams stated in the post game interview on Thursday that if “someone is gonna invite me to go play, then we’re gonna go play.” I think that is the right attitude to have. Now if he allowed his players to decide whether they would play or not, and they voted not to go, I’m not sure I could ever have the same respect for the program that I have now.
transfer. please. give me adam boones clone over him.
Let’s refrain from hoping a player transfers. Yes, this might be a situation where it is possibly the best for all involved and if it does happen, I am sure most people won’t be upset but for now Drew is still a Tar Heel. Hopefully if he chooses to continue as a Tar Heel he will do what needs to be done to play the game in the Carolina Way.
I have a lot of respect for the posters on this blog but we should go to the NIT if we are offered a spot.
Try to put yourself in Roy’s position. If you’re the coach and your goal is to play in the post season, you play. You can’t worry about the season and what the fan base thinks. You must have credibility with your team and the leadership to know what is best. You just don’t tell your kids to quit and not accepting an NIT bid is quiting.
pardon my offensive truth telling.
it’s really irrelevant, however, either way.
steph is right, and I am wrong (and lacking in humor, apparently).
JBB:
It has nothing to do with truth-telling, or right or wrong, or even humor (or lack thereof). Please feel free to agree or disagree or even call out other posters – respectfully. When in doubt, see the “comment rules” tab.
Just business, nothing personal. Carry on.
marcus62660 –
“Now if he allowed his players to decide whether they would play or not, and they voted not to go, I’m not sure I could ever have the same respect for the program that I have now.”
In my view, respect for the program stems from running a clean and successful enterprise. We are clean so far as I have any reason to believe. But the season, and particularly the latter half of it, was not successful. Indeed it was appalling.
From the New Year to now, did you see a lot out there that built “respect for the program?” The consensus, with which I agree, is that we had a bad year, some of which was due to lack of intensity. That does not make the players bad people. But it also does not “build respect for the program.”
This is not a season any of us enjoyed, including, I would certainly think, the players. We have no scheduled games remaining. It’s hardly that we would seem cowardly to decline to add a game at this stage; no serious person could or would think we’re AFRAID to play. It’s that there is no point in playing.
One of the unhappy lessons of adult life is that there comes a time when you let it go. Of all the seasons where you would want to take every opportunity to keep it going, this ain’t the one.
Doc –
Is that a picture of Ronald Reagan? I’m not trying to make any political points here; I’m just curious.
Rath –
It is actually the stylized logo of the “Fighting Whites”, which was designed by a group of students at the “other UNC” (University of Northern Colorado) to combat the use of Native American stereotypes in sports.
http://utpjournals.metapress.com/content/m0k6317t3p605233/?p=75c1827c42ed48729f3bba03522ca264&pi=2
Doc –
Thanks. You do learn something new on this site every day.
I live most of the year near Washington, DC, and there has been this years-long running battle about the use of the name “Redskins.” I think the latest court decision was that the use could continue, although I haven’t been following the story.
of course, Doc.
where I come from, to “be sniffing someone’s jock” is to uncritically and excessively laud him.
steph said that she wouldn’t be sniffing anything, and said so unprompted.
Hence, my retort.
nothing vulgar or unbecoming was intended…I just thought “olfactory” and “athletic supporter” was funnier than “sniff” and “jock”.
i suppose it’s not that funny when I have to explain it all out like that. Regardless, you’re right; I should be more careful to the feelings of all the egregious Pollyannas up in here.
^ It’s not that people can’t take a joke, or don’t understand certain humor, or are Pollyannas. I’ve forgotten more locker room banter than most people have heard.
But everything has it’s place. And I’m assuming the administrators of this site wish it to be more inviting to all types of people, maybe less like a locker room, with less crude terminology and expressions, and despite clever word substitutions.
Maybe you could look at it in the same way that one views drinking beer in church, or peeing on the living room floor. Drinking beer or peeing is not inherently bad, they just need to be done in the right places.
JBB –
Sniffing someone’s jock means the same thing where I’m from. We also like to use “slurping” someone, same as they do on “PTI”.
Drew is entitled to his defenders as well as his detractors. Intelligent discourse (and disagreement) is what we like to do here. Calling someone a jock-sniffer – even if it is done humorously (and it was, BTW) – belongs at IC.
And it has nothing to do with being Pollyanna-ish. THF has always called this community the most intelligent gathering of UNC fans on the interwebs and that’s where I, for one, would like to keep it. That’s all.
@THF, I don’t think Danny Green would ever make a statement like that. He was too hungry and too motivated to improve his game and keep winning. The 2005-06 Tar Heels lost 7 players, including role players, they had 2 bench players as team leaders in their improbable season, in which they played with effort and a never say die attitude. This team is exemplified by some players unwilling to take responsibility but willing to make excuses, and that’s the problem, lack of effort.
Ya’ll I wasn’t offended. I have three men in the house, I’ve heard alot worse. That was pretty PG.
I think that some of the “fans” here that were offended by LDs’ remarks need to toughen up. Right? Isn’t that what you’ve said when it has come to criticism of his play and hurting his feelings. “toughen up, you’re not in high school anymore.” If fans have the right to be critical of him, then he certainly has the right to be critical of mature adults who aren’t acting quite so mature. The only difference is that Drews’ position is so correct that its not open for debate.
As for Yates, I only wish that he could call Tar Heel football fans spoiled. The closest we’ve gotten is debrived.
Cheers to Drew for standing up for himself …at least we are learning that he does have a little fight in him. No apology necessary.
^Wish that fight showed up on the court once in a while. Along with some bball IQ
Fans are offended because Drew is not “standing up for himself”, he is making excuses for his pitiful performance and lack of effort. He is not Ty Lawson, or Raymond Felton, he is a second rate PG, at best, who happened to get a big break at UNC and is proving undeserving by making such excuses.
I am offended at “fans” wanting certain players to transfer and not play in the NIT.
Drew was not making any excuse just making a statement. We are spoiled.
^Beg to differ. We “fans” are not spoiled. Spoiled would have been being pissed if this team did not make the Final Four or a deep run into the NCAA Tourney. Not having to watch an incomprehensible lack of effort for most games. BTW GT within 3 at 1:26. Go Tech.
Ah Cremins. Hewitt’s replacement eventually?
I do not think UNC fans are spoiled,,we are just used to being competitive every time UNC plays and playing hard every night…..
Is Larry Drew really thinking of transferring..???.. if so i believe it is the easy way out . Larry Drew is a good average player …This years team is talented enough that they should be in the NCAA but they aren’t and that is ok…..The team lacks effort and needs to learn how to play as a team. In college it is several guys that make a team good not just one or two. Yes this years UNC team has alot of youth but some of the mistakes they have shown on the court are basics..Sometime sit looks like they panic and are unsure of things.. Playiong in teh NIt is better then sitting at home watching!! Gives everyone more experience ,opportunity to redeem themselves..