If Roy Williams has his way maybe. Roy said this last night during the postgame press conference:
The crowd was sensational. I’ve said several times since I’ve gotten back here that we should play one or two games a year in this building. Maybe, when the economy turns around and gets real good, let’s take half the seats out of the Smith Center, put in luxury boxes and get a crowd like this every daggum night. The crowd was helpful tonight, there’s no question about that – I loved the people that were here.
It makes perfect sense to play a team like NCCU or Presbyterian over in Carmichael. Those games are poorly attended as it is and Carmichael would easily be full for opponents like that.
As for the Dean Dome renovation comment I take it to mean this:
Let’s build suites for the fat cats in the lower level so we can get them out of there and get “a crowd like this every dadgum night.”
Remember earlier this season, Roy was pissed off to no end about poor attendance during the early season games. I have always thought those complaints were directed at the lower level Ram’s Club members. Of course, Roy could be talking about simply making the Dean Dome “smaller” and therefore louder. However, I don’t think that is where he is going, especially with the “I loved the people that were here” line. I think Roy is hoping for more vocal fans(i.e. students, public sale tickets) inside the Dean Dome to replicate the atmosphere seen in Carmichael, Tuesday night.
Is there any chance it happens? Who knows. The Dean Dome is almost 25 years old. It would not surprise me to see them move toward some kind of major renovation. They are already doing some renovations there which is why the NIT game ended up at Carmichael. Obviously the overall financial picture would need to improve plus there is already a campaign to renovate Kenan Stadum. My guess would be that we will probably see a game or two back in Carmichael but some sort of massive renovation of the Dean Dome is likely years away.
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Did anybody count how many times Jimmy Dykes compared the atmosphere in Carmichael to an Indiana high school state basketball championship? I think it was at least 6. I’m all for more games there it looked like an incredible environment.
I tend to like Dykes, but if he has one major flaw it is that when he makes an interesting point he often feels the need to hit you over the head with it over and over and over again…
When did North Carolina become N.C. State?
Being at the game last night was a treat and the crowd was awesome. But Carolina fans are taking way too much criticism for so called poor attendance. Late season games in the Dean Dome were still getting 18K plus, which is way more then most places even hold. And as much as I love the idea of playing games in Carmichael, the games against NC Central and Presbyterian still drew more than 14K for the first one and 18K for the latter. That is more than twice Carmichael holds. And many of the people who would go to those games are people who don’t have a chance to see the Heels play all year.
Now if you told me that they could move the fat cats to luxury boxes and give more tix to the little people and students I’m all for it, but the size of the Dean Dome is a necessary evil because we are so popular.
Also the rennovations right now are just to the basketball offices not to the playing or arena structure.
First of all, I as a Carolina fan appreciate the contribution of the alumni that helped build the Dean Smith Center. It’s a marvelous facility and I recognize it couldn’t have been built without their financial help. That said…it’s pathetic. The lower level, with the exception of the student section, is a library. Sam Cassell nailed it. But it’s a double edged sword. With the way things are right now, the school wants me to pay $50 or whatever it is to see them play Valparaiso? The majority of people who can afford season tickets, who have access to season tickets and especially those seats in the view of the game cameras, aren’t ever going to provide the kind of atmosphere Roy wants, I want, or most of the rest of the ACC has. Have you been to a Carolina – Wake Forest game at the LJVM? Amazing. Now, the seats that you can see in the camera shots (the lower level, courtside seats), it takes a threat from an opponent or getting down by double digits for the crowd to even stand up. And when that happens, as soon as that particular possesion is over, back to sleep they go. I’ve been told to sit down in the final moments of tight games in the Dome before…by Carolina fans sitting behind me. It’s awful. Thank you alumni for the building, but if all you were going to do was build a big, nice looking building and not bring the same level of enthusiasm and energy you did to the architecture of the facility…let’s just go back to Carmichael. I couldn’t agree with Roy more. Less is more. And don’t give me the 2005 Duke game. It should take that kind of game to be loud in there. Outside of that game and maybe 1 or 2 others, when has the crowd ever contributed to their home court advantage. Pathetic when you consider what it could/should be.
^^^^ Good comment on Dyke’s style, though I like him too.
Sometimes I get the feeling that the commentary of many announcers is purposefully repetitive so they can make their key observations to viewers who may have missed it the first time, or maybe have just joined the broadcast. But it can get a little old if you’re there for the duration.
A few observations from last night’s game in Carmichael. It was odd not to hear “Jump Around” before tipoff. The sound system is way softer than in the Dean Dome. Hard to hear announcements sometimes. Fans were great, but again I noticed that the adults in the lower level (probably Ram’s Club members who got priority ticket sales on Monday) sat more often than the rest of the fans. W&M fans were loud but — get this — this is the 2nd time in 105 years their basketball team has made it to a post-season tournament. I agree it would be fun to play 1-2 games a year in Carmichael.
My criticism with attendance in the Dean Dome this year has more to do with students. Even at the State game, there were entire empty rows in the upper-level student sections. Inexcusable.
Larry S…maybe that’s the reason Dykes is working the NIT
PRGuy…I didn’t realize that about the State game. Didn’t get to watch it, but you’re right, that’s inexcusable about the students.
I’m all for more games in Carmichael, after all what I consider the golden age of UNC basketball took place on the Carmichael floor. And it is nice to see a loud crowd at a Carolina home game.
But let’s not be unfair to the Dean Dome. UNC has an equally impressive record there. At the DD they are 285-52(.834). At Carmichael they were 169-20(.852). The slightly higher winning percentage at Carmichael most likely has more to do with the Matt D years then it does with a change of venue. If they want a louder crowd at the Dome then they need to rearrange the seating to be younger fans closer to the court. I think THAT is what Roy is talking about.
” The slightly higher winning percentage at Carmichael most likely has more to do with the Matt D years and the Ginyard/Thompson senior season then it does with a change of venue.”
FTFY
I was fortunate enough to buy a ticket from a scalper that was about 5 rows from the court for the WF game 2 years ago. I was definitely the only person within 10 rows to stand up after a dunk or even that ridiculous 3 that Wayne made to end the half. I also felt like I was the only one in my section without a collared shirt on underneath a Tar Heel Blue sweater.
During halftime I talked with the guy next to me and he was telling me how his dad had given over a million dollars to UNC and how the guy in front of us was an exec at Budweiser and he gave about the same. It’ll be a long time before you can get those people to move.
I think if Roy had made a push like this last year after his 2nd National Title in 5 years it would’ve carried more weight. I think it will fall on deaf ears and the comments will be quickly forgotten because they were made after a 1st round NIT game against the Tribe of William and Mary.
I love the idea of playing games in Carmichael, but don’t forget…the UNC women play their games there.
The students should be closer to the court. Most schools do that. Why not UNC? Forget the rich hipsters.
I had a blast at the game last night. The renovations were very nice and it was a great environment.
It would be nice to have a few of the “off” games in December, with historically low attendance at the DES center, over at Carmichael. Maybe even all exhibition games.
I still think we’d run into two problems though. First, the basketball office & visiting team would probably take up all of the sideline seats behind the benches. Especially if these groups kept their same allotment from regular games at the smith center.
Second, a huge portion of the remaining upper sideline section would be given to the same Ram’s Club season ticket holders that everyone complains about already.
Combined, these would leave an even smaller amount of tickets available to the general public, who along with the sideline student section, were the one’s who really brought the noise last night.
If any games are held at Carmichael, my vote would be to extend the student section all of the way around the lower half and just leave the rest open to general public.
I mean, a large amount of the lower level Ram’s Club seats are sold or people are just no-shows to most of the December “off” games already in the DES center. Sticking to the same priority distribution at Carmichael wouldn’t add any excitement, imho.
Sure, it would be great to have some games in Carmichael, and let the students and general public have all the tickets. They should just make sure that the ticket prices for these games, and student fees, are adjusted to make up for the lost revenues from not having 18k or so paying customers (including concessions, etc.) at the Smith Center.
no question there would be a huge revenue impact with any game played at Carmichael. there’s a good reason it hasn’t happened yet despite Roy suggesting it a few times.
however if the program was going to take that leap, I think they should stay focused on the reason why, that’s all.
as always tho, easier said than done!
I apologize, but please remind me again what the reason is.
Dear Wealthy Alums (including those who actually funded the construction of the Dean Smith Center),
You should continue to give tons of money to the University every year while paying handily for your season tickets, but we don’t like the way you cheer for the basketball team so we’re going to give your seats to someone else or move some of the games to Carmichael Arena in order to allow some “real” fans the ability cheer for the team the way you’re supposed too. So please keep sending us those fat checks, but we’d prefer you watched the games at a bar on Franklin Street versus actually in person.
Sincerely, The University of North Carolina in Chapel Hill
I always have issues with fans that do not show up to the games and leave empty seats or unused tickets, but telling someone how to cheer or watch a basketball game seems a little self-righteous to me. No one has the right to tell someone how they should cheer their team from a seat they rightfully paid for. You may not like it, but there is a word for taking seats from those who rightfully paid for and earned the privileges of said seats just because you don’t like the way they cheer or you want to distribute those same privileges to the masses, its called Socialism. And that would be taking it a little too far even for Chapel Hill standards.
Roy has the right approach to changing the dynamic of the Dean Smith Center atmosphere. The University should provide a better option to the largest financial contributors in the fan base by adding luxury boxes that will free up lower level seats that the University in turn can redistribute how they see fit in order to balance both the revenue stream and atmosphere of the Dean Smith Center. Also, you would also need to compensate fans with season tickets if you decide to move a couple regular season games to Carmichael and plan on not providing them with comparable seats or make those games 100% general admission. The best solution would be to play preseason and alumni games in Carmichael until adequate luxury boxes can be added to the Smith Center, instead of trying to mimic N.C. State and play a couple games a year in your old arena because either you don’t like the atmosphere or have trouble filling the seats in your new location.
^I think the frustration is you have a UNC program with a ton of success but the home court advantage does not seem to match that. I think your point is valid and that is where Roy is going with the luxury boxes idea. Basically give the big donors something better like suites open seating up to create a different makeup of the crowd.
It is a fine line you walk with this. The people who own those seats pay a ridiculous amount of money to obtain and keep them. It blows me away to see the numbers attached to those seats and that is why UNC is easily the highest valued basketball program in the country and yes they paid for that building not unlike stockholders owning a company. It is not something that can simply be discarded even for something as nice as a raucous home atmosphere. However, it is crappy when you see empty seats or folks who roll in ten mins after tip, sit there and basically do nothing, then roll out ten minutes before the game ends. I know they paid for their seats with huge bags of cash and it entitles them to do whatever they want, but when you look at Duke or Kansas or Maryland and see what other schools do in terms of a home crowd, it frustrates the average fan.
scl11,
The University of Illinois has their Orange Krush section literally surround the court. Right behind them are the donors. I can assure you that there are very rich people donating to the University of Illinois considering how the school was huge in developing of the internet.
I think Roy has a great idea. I’m sure Dean would be for it, too. If anyone can make this happen, Roy can. Yes, those fat cats gave a lot of money for the Dean Dome. But who is going to tell Roy no? Put them in the luxery boxes and get fans in the seats that will make some noise! The only reason those fat cats are at the game anyway is to socialize. They talk more about business and politics than cheering for the Heels. Let them have the luxery suites for life, and get some real fans in the seats who will stand up and cheer, not some old folks actually telling people to sit down.
aheel4ever,
accoding to roy, having a very loud cheering crowd.
Bluhevn, I don’t think its about young or old. I think its about blue collar/white collar. I have the burden of making sure a business runs smoothly, but on a very small scale. I have time for leisures such as exercise and watching sports. Some of those “white collar” folks have a lot more on their plate, and that very game they go to may be the only opportunity they have to discuss business or get ideas of how to manage their industry. Sure, they support the heels, just in a different way. I do understand your frustration though. I can’t understand for the sake of me why people are just immune to cheering loudly and providing energy down there. Wish things were different, but I see no solution. I would like an atmosphere like the Dukes, Kansases, Marylands and so forth get. I’m sure the players would love to have that atmosphere more than any of us.
For now, its the blue collar upper deck providing the energy vs the white collar lower deck making that place possible.
Isn’t it going to take a lot of luxury boxes, or whatever, to relocate the number of people needed to improve on the courtside crowd effect? It seems like you need at least a thousand better fans to get this done.
Regardless of whether you provide alternatives to the seatholders, or just buy the seats back, or seek revenue elsewhere from the loss of donations, it’s going to be expensive.
The decision to reward donors for building the Smith Center is what got us to this point, and sets us apart from many other schools. Someone’s going to have to come up with some bucks to reverse it, and the ones that most want it to change are the ones that don’t have the means to help change it.
faustus1500,
What’s your point? There are rich people that donate to every University, but that does not change the fact that changing the location of someone’s very expensive seats because you do not condone the way they support the team without providing a superior or equal alternative is an absurd, self-righteous, and vigilante notion.
So are you suggesting that donors just give less and receive less attractive seats in return so a Carolina Blue Crush can be created in the lower level of home basketball games? Would student fees be increase to cover the gaps in revenue streams by making this switch or should the donors still be expected to continue providing the same amount funding just sit in the upper level?
scl11,
Recently, the University of Illinois updated their basketball seating to reflect amount of donorship. It would be absurdist to assume all of the high end donors donate large sums of money simply to get quality seats at UNC basketball games. I am sure T. Boone Pickens didn’t dump hundreds of millions of dollars into building a new football stadium and into scholarship funds to simply sit in the front row on the 50 yard line. If I was a donor at UNC, I would prefer a better atmosphere. That doesn’t mean we need UNC students to be thirty rows deep. Just four or five rows. The Orange Krush do a lot of work to promote school spirit. Those seats are not simply tickets a student can buy. There is effort involved. I agree with having a suites for the high end donors, but will there be enough suites? To be honest, the wine and cheese atmosphere of the dome does bother me. I think we can combine the two.
For the “fat cats” and also other season ticket holders who are not wealthy, like me, but nonetheless are required to pay large sums annually for the tickets, the issue is quite simple. 20+ years ago, the university made us an offer; you give money, we will use your money to build a new arena, and you get the right to buy tickets (as long as you keep paying your annual Rams Club dues). We made a deal, plain and simple. If now, the deal doesn’t look so good to some for certain reasons, too bad.
OK, I wouldn’t mind having a more raucous atmosphere on a more consistent basis. Just don’t do anything that doesn’t honor the contract we made years ago.
^Like I said. There is a line that must be walked with this because of the rights people have to their seats and the money they bring in. And UNC is not the only place this is an issue. Talk to you average NCSU fan and they will tell you that being at RBC is not ideal but there is no way NCSU gives up the money they bring in from the seat licensing system there.
i think the layout of the smith center alone would make it difficult to simply just surround the court with students like other arenas (all other issues aside).
most arena’s that do this with students have the section right around the court sunken on all sides, has open space between the court and stands or the seating is very steep.
http://blog.admissions.illinois.edu/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/purdue3.jpg
1. I wasn’t onsite at the 2005 Duke game but it’s not like the DES doesn’t get loud. I seem to recall the MSU game this year was loud, Duke game level loud.
2. I think you can have games in Carmichael but you would need to make them outside of the season ticket package and manage the allocation based on donors. So you could limit the number of tickets allowed to Rams club members, you can attend 2 of 3 games or 2 of 4 but not all of them and you could back the number of seats allocated from say your normal 6 to say 2 seats. You have to appease the primary donors. Last time I check blog posts weren’t paying for UNC to do anything.
3. Don’t lump the entire Rams club into one group, you have people that donate every year and you have people that bought seats. The seat owners are dying off as you can’t pass those on. They did cost $5K apiece for some of them so it seems like a pretty good deal to me. Some of the seat owners are there every game, rain or shine. The inability to pass these seats on makes this a population that will grow smaller over time. The big rams will always be older, wealthier people, that’s how it works.
4. Students, they have to go to the game to make noise and that didn’t happen much this year. Would having better seats help that…maybe. I can see the point made here but I don’t see it as accurate in all cases. There’s no silver bullet.
More and more I find myself agreeing with scl11, it’s pretty spooky but he’s pretty accurate with most of his comments. Finally, most any school we play would die to be in our situation, they build small arenas for small crowds. They don’t see the cash outlay we have and probably never will. I just paid $1K for my season tickets to fb in addition to the LSU tickets, I’m hoping that UNC will give me a shot at some away game tickets this year. Just think about the number of tickets they returned to VT last year. I wanted to go but couldn’t get seats. Regardless, our problem is a good one to have and one we can solve. I think they can address the student ticket policy and fix that challenge but there’s not much they are going to do about the DES for some time and that’s fine as well. It’s pretty darn nice for a frickin basketball palace, dadgumit.
No game for which the Smith Center would be filled could be moved to Carmichael; it just costs too much. For the games like Presbyterian, etc., I’m confident that most season ticket holders, like me, would not have a problem with having such a game dropped from the season ticket package. For me, its 4 X $50 back in my pocket.
One thing to remember is that the Student Activity Center (as it was originally known) was built with $32 million of private money. Not a single taxpayer dollar went into its construction (a fact I love to remind the Wuffies of when they start griping about the taxpayer subsidy to support building operations).
This model of arena construction was practically unheard of in the the early 1980s when the money was raised and the arena was built and I’m not sure the “atmosphere factor” was even a remote consideration given how groundbreaking the fundraising idea was.
The student seating arrangement has been altered a number of times and they have tried to make the best of a situation, but the 50 year-old donors in the early 80s are approaching age 80 now and the dynamic of game attendance changes.
bblb,
You paid $1K for season tickets?!!!!!! I pay $77 dollars for Illinois season tickets. That is insane especially considering that UNC isn’t a football school.
Maybe, there are lot of yuppies in the crowds in Dean Smith Center. You know. It is kind of like watching a baseball game at Wrigley Field. When I watched games at Mizzou Arena and Gallagher-Iba, the older alums were among the most vocal. I had a great experience sitting to next to an old alum at the Okie State – Kansas game. He talked about growing up and actually seeing Bob Kurland play live as a kid. He was going nuts throughout the game.
^^That’s four seats, if you could call four spots on the bench a total of four seats, for the full season. So the total was $1,000 that would be less than Illinois.
I think it’s unfair to characterize UNC as not being a football school. I will admit that the basketball programs overshadows the football program, but football has been and can be again a very significant player at UNC.
Remember that this program has produced more 1000 yard rushers then any other Div I program in the country including USC. It also produced some outstanding football talent on the defensive side of the ball as well, with alumni like Lawrence Taylor, Julius Peppers, and Dre Bly. Also don’t forget that the Carolina Ram is in fact derived from one of UNC’s early football heroes Jack “The Battering Ram” Merrit.
I sincerely hope that Butch Davis finally get the program to the point where it can earn outstanding recognition in it’s own right.
bblb,
77×4. Illinois set their season ticket prices at $77 in honor of Red Grange. If you bought them individually the price for the season tickets would probably be the same as UNCs. I thought you bought 2 season tickets. That would be ridiculous.
ugatarheel,
hasn’t had a 1000 yard rusher since 1997. I know UNC has had successful players. However, there have been only three season that I can remember where they were top ten teams 1980, 1981 and 1997. When I think of a football school, I think of USC, Ohio State, or Notre Dame. The athletics are more geared towards football. I consider UNC a basketball school. Nothing wrong with that. I prefer college basketball. College basketball actually has a tournament where a champion is crowned.