So last year this was fun since I was dabbling in the top end of the countdown trying to figure out where to slot a national championship team among other national championship teams. This season, evaluating the THF Countdown is like putting lipstick on a pig since I am working at the other end of the spectrum. Well, it is what is it is.
For the record here is the bottom five where we will be conducting the unpleasantness of the day.
24. 2000
25. 2004
26. 1990
27. 2003
28. 2002
Since this team failed to make the NCAA Tournament they are automatically slotted behind 1990. Since they finished with 20 wins they rate out better than 2002. The question is whether they are better than 2003 or not. The easiest calculus where that is concerned is the NIT performance. 2010 made it all the way to the finals whereas 2003 lost in the 3rd round. While both teams faced a season ending injury to a quality big man, I am willing to mitigate more of 2010′s troubles slightly since there were some forty plus games lost due to injury. The scheduling is close and 2003 probably faced a tougher ACC slate than 2010. Ultimately the NIT is the deciding factor, especially since UNC won three games away from Chapel Hill and finished with 20 wins.
Here is the full countdown updated to include 2010:
1. 1982
2. 2009
3. 2005
4. 1993
5. 2008
6. 1998
7. 1995
8. 1984
9. 1987
10. 1997
11. 1991
12. 2007
13. 1986
14. 1994
15. 1983
16. 1989
17. 1988
18. 1985
19. 2006
20. 2001
21. 1992
22. 1996
23. 1999
24. 2000
25. 2004
26. 1990
27. 2010
28. 2003
29. 2002
Oink, oink.
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I recall the ACC being tougher top to bottom in ’03 than it was this season. I also don’t remember ’03 being subjected to as many blowouts as this year’s team. It is close, but I would put this year’s team next to last, ahead of only the gold standard for bad UNC teams, 2002.
Hope we don’t have to repeat this exercise next April.
While the NIT run was one of the few bright spots of this season, I’d say you are putting too much emphasis on the NIT in your comparison of the ’03 and ’10 teams. I believe the ’03 squad had a better regular season record, probably a better ACC record, and memorable wins over a Roy Williams-coached Kansas team in the preseason NIT, UConn, and UMd, just to list a few. Also, the ’03 team only lost to Duke by 5 in Cameron.
I won’t openly accuse you of Doherty bias, THF, but I’d give the penultimate spot to this year’s team over ’03.
/almost went there
THF – I think your assessment is right on the money, sadly. This team and the 03 team are probably even money and could go either way.
It is raining hot and cold water….
5 of the bottom 6 are in the last 10 years.
2 of the top 3 are in the last 5 years.
Regular Season Record…
2003: 16-14
2010: 16-15
ACC Record…
2003: 6-10 (8 games against tournament teams; highest seed: 2-WFU)
2010: 5-11 (9 games against tournament teams; highest seed: 1-Duke)
Good Wins (RPI < 50)...
2003: KU, Stanford, UConn, Duke, Maryland
2010: MSU, OSU, WFU, UAB, URI
Bad Losses (RPI > 150)…
2003: Iona, Miami
2010: None
Blowout losses (15+ points)…
2003: Maryland (40), Illinois (27), GT (20), Kentucky (17) Maryland (15), WFU (15)
2010: Duke (32), Maryland (21), Clemson (19), GT (17), Syracuse (16), UVa (15)
Games lost to injury…
2003: 26
2010: 47
It is my hope and my expectation for the 2010/2011 Tarheels to emulate the teams of ’05 and ’09 and NOT the team of this past season. Go Heels!!
Thanks for the stats, CM. Makes it all clear as mud.
Seriously, the question is a closer tossup than I had first thought.
How about this for a rationale:
The ’03 team did what it did after the 8-20 season; the ’10 team did what it did after a national championship season. I’d say the glass was half full (even with Doherty as head coach) with the former, and half empty with the latter. So, I’ll stick with my ranking.
The ’03 team at least had enough pride to put up a fight against Dook (heck, they even won one of those fights), so they get the edge.
Worst UNC team in my memory, hands down, but also the worst performance by a UNC fan base in memory. Hope both bounce back next season.
shovel/dirt/EOS!
Interesting stats. ’03 didn’t seem so horrible b/c we had just come off of ’02. But after seeing the stats I now recall that 40 point loss to Maryland. Terrible, but still not as bad as this year’s loss at Dook. You could also see a future with the ’03 team, with May, Felton, Rashad and Jawad. Not so clear with this year’s bunch.
I don’t have the exact numbers in front of me, but 2010 was the 2nd worst FG shooting team since 1960-61. Only 2003 was worse.
Worst FG shooting UNC teams since 1960-61
1. 2003
2. 2010
3. 2002
In my opinion, 2010 was the 2nd worst Tar Heel team in 50 years, barely edging out either 2003 and1961-62, Dean’s first year.
2002
2010
2003
1962
2010 was preseason Top 5 and 2003 was borderline Top 25, so the disappointment and unfulfilled potential makes 2010 worse than 2003 imhop. If you look at pure numbers, yes 2010 might be slightly better on paper, but as Santiago mentioned from where the program and expectations were at the beginning of each of the seasons 2010 was worse than 2003.
Singler is going to be back at dook, that should make the addition of Irving even bigger.
Hardly surprising that Singler is back. He was projected as a late first round pick and maybe early second round. Given that he probably had the best year of his career, there is no way his stock goes up any further given that a glut of talent will declare next year if there is no lockout. If there is a lockout he is screwed. Actually he might be screwed either way. However, they will be a really good team now with a glut of guards, Singler, Irving, Curry, Smith and Dawkins and two very serviceable big men inside in the Plumlee brothers.
As I had said once before, for us this coming year will be our true rebuilding year. Although we will have some improvement in guard play and perimeter shooting, hopefully we won’t see any more grand experiments this time around. But much of our success this year will depend on the coaching staff and how they adjust their system to the available talent.
One thing though, if HB does play to his abilities I don’t see him staying for more than a year, barring an NBA lockout. Turning down millions and the prestige of being the number 1 draft pick is something no kid can overlook. And since Nolan Smith does not want to go for the draft unless he is the number 1 pick he can either redshirt this year or hope for a miracle.
they never seem to leave dook when they have…shall we say…close personal relationships.
to not even take a free test of the situation is remarkable.
its a shame they are going to be disappointed in their season.
Singler coming back will be the talk for a day or so, but…
Dook will get the love from the usual outlets all summer/all fall…those outlets that we tend to ignore (or not take seriously). When it comes down to it, Dook are still a team that you guard on the perimeter and force them to beat you from mid-to-long-range.
Kyle Singler is not a special talent. He is a player who flourished int he Dook system, as was to be expected. He is not a difference maker.
Like I said before, I WANT Singler back. I want our team to be tested by an over-hyped, Vitale-oiled Dook machine. Like in 2006, I want to see our team take it to them in Durham on Singler’s Senior Night. Roll out the cameras, and “unprecedented” round-the-clock, three-day coverage, and let’s watch another UNC frosh get his on Senior Day.
Dook Hate is back, and it will be even greater with Singler back to be the face of their program. If anything, an early departure by Singler would have helped the Blue Devils on the recruiting front. More recruits could say, “yeah, I could play at Dook and be like Nolan Smith (gasp!) and Kyrie ‘the greatest point guard prospect ever, as annointed by the overly-worried (if not frightened) UNC fan base!’ Irving.”
But no, Singler being the face of the Dookies is just too precious.
This story will have no happy ending for Kay and his band of dweebs.
“Band of dweebs!?”
Awesome–just awesome.
I like to imagine, now, that Weezer open for themselves under the name “Band of Dweebs.”
I also agree with the substance of your comment.
Q) When is it sweetest to beat Duke?
A) When they are grotesquely swollen with national media love…
^ Let’s not get ahead of ourselves. Our team has a lot of work to do, the coaching staff has a lot to learn, chief among which is to tailor the playing system to the personnel. The past season it was like a mad dash to the bottom by all people concerned, the players did not compete, the seniors failed to lead and coaches did a poor job of coaching. We not only have to compete against a pretty formidable Duke team but a pretty formidable coach.
I have been biting my tongue till now because what I have been thinking is actually heresy, but one has to give plaudits to K for making an NC team with a bunch of players who till last year were the laughing stock of college basketball. Maybe it is his personality, coaching style who knows what, but he got the job done. Some of it is definitely his willingness to play a different game than he was used to coaching. Unlike Paulus, whom he pushed to become another Jay Williams or Chris Duhon much to the detriment of everyone concerned, this time he tailored his game plan around the abilities of Scheyer. Duke played a more deliberate defense heavy game content to play at the half court instead of forcing the issue like they were inclined to previously. Is it because of his team USA experience? Who knows? But he changed many aspects of his coaching and built his team around the talent rather than the other way around.
I am generally too depressed to post. The Duke SI is sitting unread on the floor, next to the Kansas SI from 2 years ago, which is also unread, but which has been basically ripped to shreds by my children and cats.
The 1993 team, based upon results and not expectations in the the NBA, probably deserves more respect. Who dethroned Duke? Who played Michigan, which had 3 future NBA stars on its roster, and outscored it overall in two match-ups? Which team really restored UNC back to the top of the college basketball world, the 2005 team, or was it actually the 1993 team, or was it a tie?
Ed gets hurt plays half a season goes pro. Sunglare wins the MOP returns for a fourth season.
Thinking about the bottom five proves that amnesia is underrated.
I hoped Singler was going pro so he could afford an adult haircut. Oh well. It is funny as Wayne22 mentioned that Davis was hurt and played only half the season and is going pro and will be a lottery pick, while Singler is the star of the national champions and is returning. I think this says volumes for how down the whole college game was this past season. This Duke team will easily be one of the most forgettable national championship teams of all time. They are not going to have it so easy next year, either. The college game will be better next year, and UNC will be right there with them.
“Our team has a lot of work to do, the coaching staff has a lot to learn, chief among which is to tailor the playing system to the personnel.”
From what I understand Roy is installing the Princeton offense as we speak, and writing up a petition to the NCAA to have the shot clock removed from the college game so Carolina can have a chance to compete at the DI level. Sheesh, just cut and paste already 74, or how about just changing your handle to ‘SlowDownRoy’. SMH for 100th time.
Will there ever be a team to knock ’82 off the top? No. Reason? Two words – Jordan, Worthy. I was alive in ’82, but not old enough to appreciate that team. Earliest teams in my memory bank were in the late 80s. Glad to see ’08 in the top five – for my money, they’re tops. With the exception of the first half of the ’08 Final Four, that team was amazing!
Had 2008 won the title at 38-2 it would have been an interesting debate. Had the 2009 team won the ACC and NCAA titles with only 1-2 losses then it would have been debated. As I pointed out last year when I ranked 2009 #2, the 1982 team won a 1-2 game, beat UVa twice, beat Houston and Georgetown in the Final Four which included some big name future NBA stars on the respective rosters. They were 32-2, won ACC reg and tourney titles plus the NCAA.