“All this has happened before, and it will happen again.” — Cylon proverb from Battlestar Galactica
As the Evil Empire prepares to play for a national championship, it is easy to draw a parallel to a time not all that long ago when the roles of Duke and UNC were reversed.
The time was 1992, and Duke was coming off back-to-back national championships and three straight Final Fours. Coinciding with the explosion on college basketball on ESPN, Duke was the new face of college basketball, having supplanted North Carolina as the premier program in the ACC.
Carolina, meanwhile, despite having guys named Jordan, Perkins, Smith, and Reid in the lineup, suffered through a nine-year Final Four drought that finally ended in 1991, but was overshadowed by Duke’s first title and its repeat performance the next year. Dean Smith turned 60 in 1991 and the whispers were beginning that the game had passed him by and that UNC would never regain its glory of the 70s and 80s.
Of course, Smith and the Tar Heels answered Duke’s titles with a magical NCAA run in 1993 with a team that ranks as a fan favorite even today. Despite having no real NBA superstars (although George Lynch and Eric Montross would draw an NBA paycheck for many years), the Tar Heels dispatched highly favored Michigan to win Smith’s second title and remove all doubt as to his place in the college basketball pantheon. Smith would lead the Heels to two more Final Fours before retiring in 1997.
Fast forward to 2009, when Roy Williams has led UNC to its second title in five years. Tyler Hansbrough becomes the ACC’s all-time leading scorer and the Heels are named the team of the decade. Duke, on the other hand, had only been to one Final Four since winning a title in 2001 and was fast becoming a blip in Carolina’s rear-view mirror. Mike Krzyzewski turned 60 in 2007 and his work with USA Basketball caused question as to whether or not he was giving everything he had to Duke. UNC and Williams landing star recruit Harrison Barnes after Barnes was seemingly a lock to attend Duke was supposed to be the final nail in the ascension of Carolina basketball over the Blue Devils.
Yet, just five short months after Barnes rocked the UNC-Duke rivalry and just 365 days after Duke basketball was seemingly banished to irrelevancy, the Devils will play for the school’s (and Krzyzewski’s) fourth NCAA title at the same time Carolina suffered through a season to forget. Much as Carolina was to be tossed on the scrap heap of history in the early 90s but rebounded to win a title the very next year, Duke stands in an eerily similar situation nearly two decades later. Crazy parallels, but in many ways, the unbridled success of both programs have shared such parallels, particularly over the past 30 years. Without yin, there is no yang.
With all that being said, Butler will have a multitude of light blue brethren tonight – GO BULLDOGS!
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I was thinking more along the lines of “The Empire Strikes Back.” Unfortunately, UNC is hardly a rag tag band of rebels. I guess the rebellion would all the schools not UNC, Duke, UK, KU, and etc.
i have very little optimism dook can be turned aside tonight.
it could be their 3rd game out of 4 playing a team missing a starter.
i’ve been through this before tho. i will soon be ignoring every sports channel, the local news, local papers. probably for a good week, til it isnt all over the media on a daily basis.
it will literally sicken me.
tell all of the people you know that like dook “congrats on the soon to be national championship tonight.” Jinx it as much as you can. I won’t watch the game tonight and I don’t plan on watching sportscenter until Thursday when the master’s is in full swing.
Really?!!!
http://www.sportingnews.com/college-basketball/article/2010-04-05/dukes-zoubek-finally-playing-7-foot-frame
more interesting is this article:
http://www.sportingnews.com/college-basketball/article/2010-04-05/butlers-graves-gets-task-dissecting-duke
i REALLY would like to know if he sat there, watching 25 hours of dook tapes, and said, “whats with the handchecking, i thought that was illegal.” or “Zoubek stands with his feet about 6 feet apart to set an illegal screen”.
do coaches talk about this pre-game to the refs? or are they like the tv commentators, and completely ignore the rules of the game being violated.
the rule is feet shoulder-width apart on screens. not, a defender may have to trip over your foot, or your knee, and thats ok. whats next, the practice of screen setting slowly morphs to you can have your arms spread out too, and you can smack the defender in the face if thats where HE ends up hitting YOUR ARM.
Regardless of the things many of us, myself included, think Zoubek gets away with, I think his progress is a good lesson for many UNC fans who have dismissed some of the Heels second tier players as never being up to the task.
If you look at Zoubeks’s freshman year, I don’t think many would have thought he would be such an integral part of where Duke is today. And it has more to do with players best fulfilling their role, within an effective system and alongside other better players, than ultimately how talented they are.
__________
Nicely-done piece, Doc.
I think next year will be one of the most intriguing, rivalry-wise, that Duke and UNC has had in some time. A lot of whether Duke keeps the upper hand depends on how good UNC’s recruits end up being, and who Duke has coming back. Nonetheless, I think it will be pretty exciting.
Doc is right of course. These things are cyclical and even necessary. Call it a balance if you will. You can’t appreciate the light in a world with no dark. Good isn’t recognizable without evil to compare it to. Sweet has no flavor without sour to balance it.
Even saying all that, it doesn’t make what will most likely happen tonight any more palatable.
i guess the whole know your role tactic could work.
if we could convince one of the Wears to forget about the pretty decent jumpshot form they have, and to concentrate on illegal screens and going over the back. even if we get a lower-than-dook foul called every OTHER time a Wear does it, we’d come out ahead, since we have another Wear in the bullpen.
its worth a shot.
“Smith would lead the Heels to two more Final Fours before retiring in 1997.”
So if the parallels continue K will be retiring in 2014, SWEET. This also drives home the point that Dean retired about 4 or 5 years too soon.
“i guess the whole know your role tactic could work.
if we could convince one of the Wears to forget about the pretty decent jumpshot form they have, and to concentrate on illegal screens and going over the back. even if we get a lower-than-dook foul called every OTHER time a Wear does it, we’d come out ahead, since we have another Wear in the bullpen.
its worth a shot.”
Thus this is the difference between a player in a Duke program and a player in a UNC program. In the UNC programs all players are expected to develop their all around game and become complete basketball players vs. Duke where players who don’t make the cut are supposed to fit a role that benefits the system. Ginyard would have been a great Duke player, he is the guard version of Lance Thomas.
sc get’s two “like” checks from me.
The screens do need to be dissected. To me, not only does Zoubek set up too wide, it’s where he goes after getting set, much like a full back, so technically he gets set, but then runs interference.
The first play of the WVA game illustrated how that game was going to be called. Smith had his hands ALL OVER the WVA point guard (back up might I mention) and a FIVE second call was made. What a joke.
Wasn’t Jackie Manual more or less role player, and he played on a championship team. I believe UNC has had several players like that over the years.
LarryS,
Jackie Manuel was never going to be a threat on offense. There are times where a player should be relagated to a role. What bothers me is that defense collapse on Zoubek. Why?!!!!
Obviously not pulling for Dook tonight–or ever–but you have to respect the job Ratface did this year. This was nowhere near his most talented team, but he got every ounce these guys had to give. Smith made a huge improvement over last year, as did Scheyer. Understanding his team’s strengths and weaknesses, we saw very little drive and pitch, and lots more shots off of offensive rebounds or out of the halfcourt offense. This team rarely turned the ball over and always played good defense. It almost never went brain dead. So while I am a huge Butler fan tonight, I have to give credit where credit is due to Dook for getting where no one thought they could go this year.
HP, that 5 second call really was a joke. i went back and watched it 3 more times. if it was 5 seconds, it was dead on at 5. and Mazzulla dribbled from the circle, to the wing.
that call ISNT made 99 times out of 100. and this guy decides to start a FF game with it.
attention hog.
****
its starting to get interesting for Ed Davis. he did NOT get his cast off as he was expecting.
with the cutoff date of May 8 to come BACK to school, will NBA teams get a good read on the strength of his wrist in time? he has a month to get the cast off, start rehab, AND workout for teams. will someone take him on faith?
Anyone think the rat will take a 12-15 million a year contract from the nets? ESPN is reporting he’s the top of the list for the Nets new owner. I might be able to stomach a dook win tonight if that meant the rat left after a championship. I doubt it though.
^zero chance.
LarryS,
There are always exceptions to the norm. Manual was an exception, but also was a player that was not recruited by Roy for his system, so sometimes you just have to play the hand you were dealt.
There are role players on every team, but there is a difference of having a player that plays a role one season and develops his game over their career to move from role player to staring role on a team (UNC’s program) vs. forcing a player into a role, but not developing any other parts of that player’s game and making that player a role player for their career in order to benefit your system (Duke’s program). Why do you think so many Duke players transfer because once a role is decided for you it isn’t changing in K’s program. Just look a Shavlik Randolph, K tried to force him into the defender and rebounder role (ala Lance Thomas) instead of trying to develop Randolph’s overall game and skill set because the role benefit K’s program for the short term, while the long term development benefited the player, but might have hindered K’s program in the short term.
My view is Carolina recruits and tries to develop players to be the best all around basketball players they can be, and maybe certain players don’t pan out and become role players (*cough* this season *cough*). On the other hand, Duke and K recruit players and tell them they will be the next Lattner, Hurley, or Brand and then try to force a portion of those players into being the next Brian Davis, Greg Koubiek, or Lance Thomas to “benefit the team and the Duke tradition”. To me there is a major difference in these two philosophies.
Rat is going nowhere, and no NBA GM is worried about a broken wrist. Nice wishful thinking on both, however.
^yeah it is wishful thinking but I’m looking for some type of positive.
scl11,
Funny you mention being the next Laettner, because based on an interview I read with Zoubek came in expecting to be a Duke great. To be honest, only walk ons understand that their role is limited.
i’m sure what K and his staff say when the kid is in high school differs greatly from what they say after he arrives.
theres a list a mile long of dookies that were clearly not able to or not allowed to expand their game.
Lance Thomas has two jobs, D and rebounding, and playing 25 minutes, he still doesnt average 5 a game. but he has bought into the idea that getting his name in the book as a role player on a college title team is all he needs in life, since he isnt going to be an NBA player unless something really amazing is hiding there.
K gets a bunch of guys that have no shot at professional careers…Wojo..Collins…Thomas…Malchioni…on and on…and gets the maximum effort out of them, with the sole goal of winning a title.
not even arguably there most successful player, Laettner, did anything meaningful in the pros.
great point sc11 and one that really shouldn’t go unnoticed. i wish more recruits realized this. unc tries to build a system that allows players to develop and flourish as players, whereas duke simply forces players to adjust to their system. it’s why we *typically* see (forgetting the late 90′s) a LOT more successful UNC players at the next level vs. duke.
even though this year looked a bit rough, i am sure it is possible that henson (for example) and roy talked about jon playing the 3 b/c that would be his natural position in the nba. K, on the other hand, would never encourage that thought process. it has historically helped duke to have such a rigid system. this season is an aberration hopefully, but in today’s game where kids really have the pro’s on their mind, it’s hurt duke’s recruiting a bit. (see harrison barnes).
Did you guys know that King Rice was the assistant at Vanderbilt. I guess that explains the scrimmage. Rice was up for the Wagner job, he was beaten out by Danny Hurley.
Oh good:
http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/10190/for-coach-k-still-duke-against-the-world
“Did you guys know that King Rice was the assistant at Vanderbilt. I guess that explains the scrimmage”
stallings was an assistant under roy and they remain good friends, that is the reason for the scrimmage not rice on the bench…….
This article reminds me of one I saw posted yesterday.
Someone mentioned that this clinches K over Smith with respect to who is the best coach. That is ludicrous. Smith spent the first 30% of his career coaching during the UCLA dynasty, a team that you had about as much chance of beating as Stanford’s women have of beating UConn tomorrow night. You really can’t compare guys who coached primarily (or at least 50% of the time in different eras).
With respect to Duke getting all the breaks, well…. They do seem to get some number one seeds they may not deserve, posssibly this year, possibly in 2005.
On the other hand, Duke almost certainly had the best team in the country in 2004 and 1999. Add in those two titles and they are gunning for a sixth tonight. They came very close to beating Arkansas in 1994, which would have them gunning for tying Kentucky. Let’s not forget 1986, either. Duke lost four title games at the wire, of the exact type that UNC won against Georgetown, Michigan and Illinois.
UNC simply has not had those kind of heartbreaks, with the exception of 1977, where it was hard to complain about losing to Marquette because we were so fortunate to even get past UVa in the ACC tourney and Purdue in the NCAA’s first round.
Duke has also had more heartbreaking losses earlier in the NCAA tourney during seasons when they had legitimate number one contenders. They lost excruciating games to Kentucky in 1998, Indiana in 2002 and someone else in 2003, which school is escaping me. They had pretty tough losses in 2005 and 2006, as well. UNC, maybe had similar losses in 1984, 1987 and 1994, but it is hard to argue that Duke has been luckier in the tourney than we have.
UNC arguably had the best team in the country in 1982, 1984, 1987, 1993, 1998, 2005 and 2009, giving it four out of seven.
Duke arguably had the best team in the country in 1986, 1992, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2003, 2004 and 2006, giving it three out of eight. I didn’t include 1991 or this year, because those would be upset years, something that UNC has never accomplished, although it came reasonably close in 1977, considering the injuries, and 1981.
Even if you want to say that Duke was lucky in 1991 overall, and lucky in 1992 because of Laettner’s miracle shot, you still end up having to admit that Duke has been more unlucky than lucky with its greatest teams.
We can all be disappointed to see Duke draw within one victory of our five titles, but we should all remember that with the change of about 15 points, Duke might be gunning for its 8th title overall. So be thankful for that….
“Duke has also had more heartbreaking losses earlier in the NCAA tourney during seasons when they had legitimate number one contenders. They lost excruciating games to Kentucky in 1998, Indiana in 2002 and someone else in 2003, which school is escaping me. They had pretty tough losses in 2005 and 2006, as well.”
2003 loss was to Kansas and Duke was a #3 seed and Kansas a #2 seed, so not really an upset of a Duke favorite for the title.
“Duke arguably had the best team in the country in 1986, 1992, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2003, 2004 and 2006″
No way 2003 or 2000 is on that list. The 2000 best team was Michigan State who actually won the title, and the 2003 reason is above.
So I would say Duke is 3 out of 6 and Carolina is 4 out of 7 since 1982. So Duke doesn’t appear to be as snake bitten as you contend when compared to UNC.
scl11,
In 1984, Kenny Smith played at less that “jet” speed. If he was healthy, I think we would have seen a rematch between UNC and Georgetown. I think the Heels would have been a much better match up than Phi Slamma Jamma sans “the Glyde.” I think the only obvious season where I saw Duke lose a title when they were best team was 1999. In 1986, that St. John’s team was pretty special.
I knew Stallings was an assistant under Keady. That is where the connection is with Bruce Weber comes into play. This is how they were able to schedule a regular season match up with Illinois. I didn’t know about the Roy connection. Interesting how Stallings has a connection to both of the participants on the 2005 National Title game.
Pomeroy has taken down his ratings prior to 2004 so I may be mis-remembering one of those seasons. Did Duke have a number one seed in 2000 or 2003? The 1998 team, which I didn’t include, also had national titlist Kentucky, on the ropes and let them go.
In terms of title game heartbreak, there is still no comparison. Duke blew big leads against Arkansas and UConn, and blew a healthy lead, as I recall, against Louisville. There was no shame in losing to UConn in 1999, as UConn was quite worthy, but still, that was Duke’s best team ever and I was completely resigned to their winning the title that year, even more than this year or in 2004, obviously.
The other reason why I believe that Duke has been more unlucky is that even during UNC’s greatest seasons, last year being an exception, there usually was another team just as good basically as we were.
In 1981, Georgetown was about equal and UVa outscored us head-to-head. In 1984, Georgetown and UNC were equally good. Honestly, I don’t think we were quite as good as Syracuse or Indiana in 1987. In 1993, I am not sure that we could have beaten Michigan or Kentucky in a best of 3 series. Illinois was just as good as we were in 2005 or close, anyway.
Nobody was close to Duke in 1992. In 1999, I think they were clearly better than UConn and probably would have won a seven game series in 6 games. In 2001, yes, Duke had trouble with Maryland, but not really anyone else and they had a far better record than Maryland. 2004 was the one that Duke really let get away, with an easy title game in the waiting against GIT or OK State.
william,
If the Jet wasn’t violently taken down by that LSU player in game 17 of the 1984 season, that UNC team probably would have been the greatest ever. That lineup was sick! Don’t get me wrong…Hale was a solid player but he wasn’t Kenny Smith.
“Pomeroy has taken down his ratings prior to 2004 so I may be mis-remembering one of those seasons. Did Duke have a number one seed in 2000 or 2003? The 1998 team, which I didn’t include, also had national titlist Kentucky, on the ropes and let them go.”
Duke was a #1 seed in 2000 when it lost to #5 Seed Florida. Yes the 1998 Duke team had Kentucky on the ropes, but they were not clearly the best team in the country considering Carolina flogged them during 2 of their 3 meetings that season (and was flogging them in other meeting too, until they started missing free throws and took their foot of the gas). If Guthridge knew how to attack a triangle and 2 against Utah, Carolina would have easily beaten Kentucky for the 1998 title. If Guthridge had put Carter on the block against that trick defense from Majerus, Carolina would have celebrated its 4th title in 1998 versus 2005.
The 1999 Duke team was one of the best ever not to win a title and you could argue that the 2002 Duke team was just as good as eventual champion Maryland. But all the other years that Duke didn’t win a title I’m not as sold on them being clearly the best team.
And the 1998 choke job is offset in the tough break category for Duke by the 2001 comeback against Maryland in the FF.
“the rule is feet shoulder-width apart on screens. not, a defender may have to trip over your foot, or your knee, and thats ok.”
I know a number of you have coached basketball. Do you have any recommendations for a decent rulebook with commentary about the practical implications of each rule (or how they effectively get called) for college basketball?
Thanks
But still, SCL11, Duke had four title games just sitting to be plucked, basically low-hanging fruit. UNC and Kentucky have done a better job in title games but it is scary to think that Duke could have won four more titles very easily.
In terms of 1984, yes that team was good, but you still can’t just look back and say how great they were based on the roster. That doesn’t work in 1994 and if you try that then Michigan beats UNC in 1993 every time.
Before any injuries, we barely beat Duke in Durham. The game was not televised except on cable due to its being part of a “paid television” package by Raycom that was abandoned shortly thereafter, and no one seems to remember it. That team played Duke three times, winning that tough game in Durham and then in double overtime at home, before losing in the ACC tourney, which was finally won by Lefty.
UNC had one of its most trying parts of the season before Smith got hurt. After getting a huge win over Maryland, UNC barely got by UVa at home and then had the struggle in Durham. After Smith got hurt, there really wasn’t any clear drop-off in results.
If UNC had made the Finals against Georgetown, the game would have been every bit as great a game as in 1982, but Georgetown might have had a slight edge given the rules of the time, which Indiana also exploited in upsetting us.
Obviously, the season would have been cleaner without the Smith injury, but he was just a freshman and he never would go on to have the kind of dominant statistics that guards like Ford or Forte or Lawson had.
“Someone mentioned that this clinches K over Smith with respect to who is the best coach.”
I assume you’re referring to me, although I didn’t exactly say it clinched it. I did leave myself somewhat an out by saying that the “arguments for Dean being the better coach MIGHT have evaporated” if K wins his 4th title.
To me, Dean Smith still is, and will likely be, the better coach for other reasons, but another Duke title will no doubt fuel the debate for those who argue each coaches’ case.
You bring up very good points that I didn’t consider about coaching in different eras, and Dean having to coach against John Wooden. UCLA, while Wooden was coaching, did win the national championship all 4 times when UNC was in the Final Four. However, they only won it once when going head to head with UNC (UNC was beaten in the semifinals by Dayton, Purdue, and Fla.St. the other 3 times).
Considering this, Wooden was directly responsible for depriving Smith of only one title.
The way they have put down the ACC this year,should we not pull for that hateful team, just for the ACC?
Possibly, but the presence of a goliath like UCLA affects the entire way you prepare for the Final Four. Granted, Duke did upset UNLV in 1991 and maybe UNC could have upset UCLA in 1972, had we not gotten upset by FSU first, but it was a long shot any of those years. Jacksonville had Artis Gilmore and still lost to UCLA by 11 during the interregnum of Alcindor and Walton. State beat UCLA but it took a largely home crowd and a monumental amount of luck for even that team to finally take down UCLA, as good as State was.
It was about at this point where the talent levels at programs like State, Maryland, UNC, Louisville and Indiana began to catch up with UCLA.
Furthermore, there’s plenty more. Only 1 ACC team went to the tourney during the first third of Smith’s career. Then, for several years, basically only two teams went. They also did not seed regions during at least half of Smith’s tenure, which meant that the East and Mideast regions were often overloaded in terms of talent, while teams in other regions might have a cakewalk. But there’s more. During the first third of Smith’s career, not only did only one team per conference go to the NCAA tourney, but you had to win the tourney to be that team. That would probably wipe out a couple of K’s Final Four’s at least.
They are both great coaches, as was Wooden, but there are a number of good arguments all around. Tom Izzo might very well be a better coach than either of them, as might Bo Ryan.
MidAtlantic, you might as well go right to the source for NCAA rules. there are some differences in high school, so its all in what body your organization wants to follow.
http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal/ncaahome?WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/wps/wcm/connect/ncaa/NCAA/Sports%20and%20Championship/Basketball/Mens/Playing%20Rules/
***
here are some favorites of mine:
Section 59:
Art. 1. A screen is legal action by any player, offensive or defensive, with or
without the ball, which, without causing contact, delays or prevents an opponent
from reaching a desired position.
Art. 2. In establishing and maintaining legal screening tactics, the screener
shall:
a. Stay within his or her vertical plane with a stance no wider than shoulder
width apart and shall not lean into the path of an opponent or extend hips
into that path, even though the feet are stationary.
**VIOLATED 10-20 times a game by zoobeak.
Section 36:
Art. 4. A player shall not use the arms, hands, hips or shoulders:
a. To force his or her way through a screen;
**VIOLATED by Nolan Smith vs Baylor. i dont find the article saying the Ref Shall Explain During Live Action How Violations of Section 36 Article 4 are Frowned Upon.
Section 36:
Art. 5. It shall be illegal to extend one’s arms fully or partially, other than
vertically, so that the freedom of movement of an opponent is hindered
when contact with the extended arms occurs.
Appendix III:
Section 7. (Men) Hand-Checking (Impeding the Progress of
a Player)
To curtail hand-checking, officials must address it at the beginning of the
game, and related personal fouls must be called consistently throughout the
game. Some guidelines for officials to use when officiating hand-checking:
a. When a defensive player keeps a hand or forearm on an opponent, it is
a personal foul.
b. When a defensive player puts two hands on an opponent, it is a personal
foul.
c. When a defensive player continually jabs by extending his arm(s) and
placing a hand or forearm on the opponent, it is a personal foul.
**handchecking, folks. VIOLATED 100 times a game by every single dook player going back 30 years.
^^Those are some pretty convincing arguments, William, expertly framed in an infomercial “but wait, there’s more”-style.
Although there have been many written, I honestly think you would do great service to a book on Dean Smith.
lets not forget:
Section 40:
Art. 6. When a player approaches an opponent from behind or a position
from which the player has no reasonable chance to play the ball without
making contact with the opponent, the responsibility for contact shall be
that of the player in the unfavorable position.
**bingo!, over the back.
POINT OF EMPHASIS:
When the arm and elbow, with the shoulder as a base (pivot) are swung
with a speed that exceeds the rest of the body as it rotates on the hips or on
the pivot foot, that action is considered to be excessive. Contact, after such
an action, shall not be ignored but shall be called a flagrant foul. When the
player’s arm(s) and elbow(s) are swung excessively but without contact, a
violation has been committed.
**hello, zoobeak.
how bout we play BASKETBALL, not GRABSKETBALL. my team wont have any problem at all with following the rules.
^^^^Don’t forget freshman eligibility
It was interesting that prior to 1981, there were basically no coaches in the NCAA who had won multiple titles. Wooden had retired and there really was much less emphasis on the need for the national title credential. Vic Bubas made it to one Final but like Smith, got killed by UCLA. Al McGuire won one title and was willing to retire without one.
William,
Excellent point about multiple title winners prior to 1981. Up to that point, multiple title winners were John Wooden, Adolph Rupp, Henry Iba, Phil Woolpert (Bill Russell and San Francisco), and Ed Jucker (Cincinnati, who won ironically won two titles after Oscar Robertson left). That’s it. That’s the list. And of that list, only Jucker and Wooden did it once Dean Smith became a head coach (and Jucker did that Smith’s first two years). So basically the only multiple winner during the first 20 years of Smith’s tenure was John Wooden.
^And since Dean retired there have been three: Donovan, Calhoun and Roy.
Just about this time last year I got a tee shirt featuring the Daily Tar Heel headline from April 7, 2009, “Runaway Champions,” with a pictue of Lawson driving past some hapless MSU player on his way to another layup.
I’m wearing that shirt now and will be for the rest of the week.
I am given to understand that there is an alleged athletic event to take place tonight. I’ll be missing it, as I have more important things to do, such as re-arrange the shoes in my closet.
If perchance this alleged athletic event were a basketball game, I’m sure that if a team with a proud and winning tradition prevailed, it wouldn’t stoop to claim a championship from a bunch of really good JV-type players.
I mean, a self-respecting team wouldn’t do that.
Would it?
william,
In 1984, UNC was beating teams by an average of 17.4 points a game before the Smith injury. It wasn’t just looking at the roster and saying they were a good team. They really were a good team. Despite the wrist injury to Smith, UNC was the number one seed overall and 3 losses all season. As for the Virginia game, come on…. the Cavs made their miracle run to the Final Four that year. The Heels were back to form later that season beating Virginia by 13 in Charlottesville.
For whatever reason, maybe due to NC State dethroning UCLA or maybe due to stagnation by the NBA with so many good players going to the NBA, college basketball got really big for the first time in the mid to late 1970′s.
Dean Smith said that he could not believe the difference in media coverage at the Final Four in 1977 compared to 1972, just five years earlier. Before that, you saw more college coaches who just moved on, either to being an AD or something, like Bubas, or who retired. It is really hard to imagine today that a coach at the top of his profession and under 50 years old would just stop coaching but both Al McGuire and Vic Bubas did exactly that.
Georgetown also only lost three in 1984 and had a huge chip on its shoulder to get revenge for 1982.
If you want, you can compare it to 1999, but the difference between Duke and UConn in 1999 was larger than the difference between UNC and Georgetown in 1984. I think people are deluding themselves if they think UNC was a “sure thing” to have won it all that year without the injury to Smith. Maybe UNC would have won, maybe not, but this was not an easy year to win the title, like possibly 1981 or 1994 were in terms of having an absence of great teams those years. Georgetown, Kentucky and UNC were all very good, and Houston and Memphis were pretty decent too, as I recall.
UVa was a fluke Final Four team that year, going 7-7 in ACC regular season play, and I think one reason why maybe UNC did get upset is that the competition in the ACC was not great that year, compared to 1981, 1982 and 1983, where the ACC had either dual Semi-Finalists or actually won the NCAA title.
“Excellent point about multiple title winners prior to 1981. Up to that point, multiple title winners were John Wooden, Adolph Rupp, Henry Iba, Phil Woolpert (Bill Russell and San Francisco), and Ed Jucker (Cincinnati, who won ironically won two titles after Oscar Robertson left). That’s it. That’s the list. And of that list, only Jucker and Wooden did it once Dean Smith became a head coach (and Jucker did that Smith’s first two years). So basically the only multiple winner during the first 20 years of Smith’s tenure was John Wooden.”
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Doc, I think you left out Branch McCracken (youngest coach to win an NCAA championship) , from Indiana, who won in 1940 and 1953. So this would make 6 coaches, prior to the 1980-81 season and including John Wooden, who won multiple titles.
From the 1980-81 season, to the present, there have been 7 coaches who have won multiple titles.
Whatever happens, we will still have (along with Indiana) 32-0 in 1957, the record for most wins without a loss by an NCAA champion, which Duke secured for us by beating UNLV in 1991. How is that, for irony….
william,
You forgot that Duke was not head and shoulders above Michigan State in 1999. They beat State twice but they were both close games. As for 1984 UNC vs. Georgetown, just because the Hoyas wanted revenge doesn’t mean they would have received.
The Hoyas has David Wingate and Reggie Williams to accompany big Patrick Ewing. However, five players who were future first round picks. Don’t get me wrong that Hoyas team was amazing, but UNC at 100% would have beaten them. When Kenny Smith came back for the Georgia Tech game, even Dean Smith said that he brought Kenny back too soon. The offense slowed down.
I think it is hard to consider NCAA titles during the 40s because arguably the best tourney was the NIT.
^1951 was the first year the NCAA championship went to 16 teams. It had been 8 throughout the 40′s and 1950.
^Although I agree (at that time NIT was more relevant), can we please drive through Kentucky and attempt repeating that statement?
Even Colonel Sanders couldn’t help keep a UNC fan alive…
Duke’s closest win in 1999, appears to have been the OT thriller against St. John’s. Probably the best squad Mike Jarvis had (Ron Artest, Bootsy Thornton). In acc play Duke was +/- lights out on whomever they played. Best non-UNC squad I can recall watching; it is satisfying to see 10-yr (or it seemed) senior T. Langdon dribble off his leg to finish the NCAA title game.
I pretty much only count titles since the formation of the the ACC in 1954, mostly because this corresponds closely to the integration of the sport at the highest levels, with San Francisco, Loyola, Cincinnati, Kansas, Seattle and Texas Western all excelling with black players. While the ACC would not be fully integrated until 1972, these teams still had to confront black players on other squads if they hoped to win a title.
Faustus, you act as though I didn’t want UNC to win it all in 1984. That was my freshman year and I remember other students getting angry with me for not accepting the loss to Indiana with more equanimity. I just also remember UNC having a lot of close calls that year that make the Indiana result–remember, no shot clock–much less perplexing.
UNC would have probably gone undefeated had they had a shot clock that year, but alas, there was none. I know Smith has said he brought Kenny Smith back too soon, but also, part of that was due to his recognition that Hale, was in fact, performing more than adequately in Kenny Smith’s absence. Injuries are part of the game and UNC has generally been pretty fortunate (outside of this year) in this regard. Ultimately, I don’t think injuries prevented UNC from winning in either 1977 or 1984, although they didn’t help. Marquette was simply equally good (as was UNLV and probably Notre Dame), as was Georgetown.