…as we await what may be a big week in both prongs of the UNC football investigation.
Situations like this often bring out the nutcases, and there is no shortage of those in the Carolina football mess. But two (somewhat) prominent national writers are leading the charge in calling for Butch Davis to resign or be fired, and suggesting that, in fact, North Carolina should scuttle what remains of the football season.
Terence Moore of AOL Fanhouse and Gregg Doyel of CBS Sports have both written scathing articles in the past few days condemning Davis and the UNC football program. Moore groups Carolina in with Florida State’s “Free Shoes University” and SMU’s death penalty situation of the mid-80s. Doyel goes so far as to call Carolina “the turd floating” in the college football punchbowl. (No links for either of them. You can Google it if you like.)
Scatological hyperbole aside, it is completely fair for Moore and Doyel to call for Davis’ ouster. Their beliefs in that regard are not that much different from many alumni and friends of the university who wish to wash their hands of this entire sordid situation. But to suggest the team should forfeit the rest of the season, that the 75 -80 scholarship players who did not violate team or NCAA rules, is a stretch. Even more ridiculous is Moore’s reasoning that, since UNC is a basketball school, football would not be missed anyway. (I didn’t want to link that video, but you have to see it to comprehend just how ridiculous it is.)
As someone with a degree from the University of the People, I respect and appreciate the fact that both Moore and Doyel apparently believe the academic integrity of UNC is so great that it should not be sullied by any academic impropriety. But I do not seem to recall either Moore or Doyel calling for the end of a football season at FSU, where Doyel tries to make a connection to the current situation at Carolina, or Southern California, or anywhere else for that matter.
Clearly this is unprecedented territory for UNC, who has long steered clear of the NCAA. Also seemingly unprecedented is the timing of the academic and agent issues, so close to the beginning of the season. And certainly Carolina’s troubles were on display in front of a national audience Saturday night even as Erin Andrews continued to report as fact the disproved Club Liv tweet and 3 AM time stamp. But is having 13 players suspended or held out for a game for potential rules violations really unprecedented to the point it calls for removal of the coach and suspension of the program?
Apparently not. A decade ago, the University of Wisconsin found itself in an eerily similar situation. From ESPN’s “Outside the Lines“, September 10, 2000 (emphasis mine):
How, you might ask, could the two-time Rose Bowl champions with a legitimate chance to win the national championship this year find themselves in this mess?
Head coach, Barry Alvarez and his coaching staff juggling NCAA suspensions for 26 players all because of discounts at a sneaker store. There is a familiar echo here…
It could have been much worse for Wisconsin. Originally, the NCAA suspended 47 players. And Wisconsin officials actually discussed forfeiting their season opener.
Only an 11th hour appeal by video conference reduced that sentence. Athletes on other Wisconsin teams will face discipline for their discounts. But the Badger football team approached yesterday’s game against powerful Oregon knowing that a number of starters and other established players will again be sitting giving walk-on players larger roles than ever.
Wisconsin was actually allowed to stagger the suspensions (a.k.a. “rolling suspensions”) and the investigation spread to 84 athletes over a number of sports. Now in no way am I comparing shoe store discounts to academic integrity, but I do want to provide context to the breathless hyperbole over the situation at UNC.
And therein lies the rub for anyone who attempts to rush to judgment before all the facts are known. Again, it is the stated position here at THF that those guilty of violating team, school, or NCAA rules must be held accountable, coaches included. But due process must be served and the integrity of those involved, and not involved, must be maintained. Strange as it may seem, some of those held out were done so with the knowledge they would probably be exonerated.
(In case you’re wondering how it turned out at Wisconsin, then-coach Barry Alvarez remained at the Badgers’ helm for eight more seasons, when he became athletic director. Not saying that will happen here, again just providing context.)
As for Moore and Doyel, they have the luxury of sitting in the press box and lobbing Molotov cocktails onto players and coaches with little fear of accountability. As THF noted, their points of view simply serve to drive traffic and readership. (Although you can’t help but laugh at the love Doyel will no doubt get from State fans, despite the fact that he was previously Public Enemy #1 in the media for his constant derision of them over the Herb Sendek issue. Yeah, he calls them idiots, but if he slams UNC, he’s OK in their book!)
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“…to suggest the team should forfeit the rest of the season, that the 75 -80 scholarship players who did not violate team or NCAA rules, is a stretch.”
It’s more than a stretch. It’s collective punishment — which is bad enough in itself — for violations that have yet to be established.
I am a big fan of high standards. Indeed I called last year for the football team to bypass its bowl invitation, on the theory that bowls should be reserved for exceptionally successful teams, which ours was not. We should enforce standards at least as high for academic achievement and integrity.
But pulling a Dook lacrosse stunt (collective punishment without a reliable, individualized finding of guilt) would be reprehensible. Indeed it would be more reprehensible in a way than what Dook did, precisely because we have Dook’s humiliating example to teach us. I hope we’ll learn.
When a reliable determination of guilt is made, let the particular individuals responsible bear the weight of punishment. If that includes BD, so be it. But to punish the innocent in the name of some grand version of pristine justice is no justice at all.
I’m biting my tongue so hard its about to bleed. The NCAA has allowed burglars (the dude who had to leave the Oregon program) and woman beaters (Lawrence Phillips) to continue playing football. Alabama has almost as many NCAA probations as they do championships. Oklahoma’s team, under Barry Switzer, had a rap sheet that would make a mob boss wince, but Doyel thinks UNC is the “turd floating in the college football punchbowl”? Ok – I’ll just take a deep breath and stop now before I make a bunch of comments about Doyel that get me banned from this blog…
68 and 850, I enjoyed and agree with your objective and reasonable comments.
I also have to wonder if Doyel had anything similar printed last year as Kentucky began its basketball season with a couple players having to answer some hard questions. Then again, Doyel is kind of an expert on feces in punchbowls since it takes one to know one.
I think 850 hit the nail on the head the best when he noted that Alabama is CONSTANTLY in trouble. Yet, no one was talking about death penalties and Nick Saban getting canned when another player was question and consequently suspended earlier this year.
Yep, Doyel is reason # infinity why the mainstream media is losing out to blogs. I read those guys and I don’t sense any love for the game or any passion for any particular team–its just a paycheck. They have their formula down to science: stir the pot to drive traffic. But what is their purpose anymore? These days, if you want to read a flamethrower, you can find that on a blog with far less in the way of limitations on PC-ified language. And if you want intelligent impassioned analysis you are more likely to find that from people who are doing it for the love and not for a paycheck.
Doyel would not write anything like that about UK because he has been associated with Kentucky Sports Radio which is a UK website. They constantly reference Doyel.
I agree with the sentiment of the article and the posts. I do think that the mainstream media, hopefully still representing what we once called journalism, is doing a better job that the individuals referenced above. I’m not sure I agree with all of your thoughts on this nathan but I’m close. AOL Fanhouse is probably as close to the blogging world as you can get since they drive their money from visits and ad revenue. CBS Sports is another matter entirely. I think the mainstream media is caught in many cases trying to meet the standards of journalism, as taught even here at UNC while trying to foster a large audience that wants instant gratification. You can just feel the tension for the local media players caught in the cone of silence and a lack of information while bloggers and other less careful sources provide blood and circus for the masses.
This situation stinks and I’m looking forward to the end. I wish we could have more information sooner but that doesn’t seem likely at this point. I’m proud of our team and the game they played in Atlanta and am glad to have made the trip. More than anything I want to see this end and soon. We have some football to play and at some point the NCAA has an obligation to the member schools and students to move forward. It’s not just a game to the kids on the field, hopefully everyone can remember than as we move forward.
This made my day
” Indeed I called last year for the football team to bypass its bowl invitation, on the theory that bowls should be reserved for exceptionally successful teams, which ours was not.”
Baddour has stated publically that he does not expect any players to be kicked off of the team, and he does note expect any more coaching resignations after John Blake. http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/sports&id=7652797
I agree that we all should have learned a lesson in the Duke Lacrosse case not to prejudge anything until we know the facts. But I have a problem with this approach of trying to minimize the damage, and enforcing only the penalties that the NCAA asks us to enforce.
We are Carolina. We are supposed to stand for something. If the Carolina Way means anything, it means that we stand for the proposition that we can compete at the highest levels without violating the rules. If we have failed to live up to our ideals, then we need to take actions to make sure that nothing like this ever happens again. To me, that means telling athletes that failed to adhere to our standards that we no longer need their services. It means telling any coaches who looked the other way that we do not want to win that way. It means telling professionals in the academic support office or in the AD’s office that we do not do things this way. It is about sending a clear message to everyone in the Carolina family that is entrusted with the integrity of the program that we intend to hold you accountable, and that winning alone is not enough. You must win within the rules. I am not calling for specific actions until we know all of the facts, but when we do, I hope the Chancellor and the Board of Governors take swift decisive action. We showed on Saturday night that we can field a competetive team of players who can be in a position to win without using those players who have violated our standards. Let’s take decisive action to show everyone that the Carolina Way means something. Otherwise, let’s change all of our literature and our attitudes to say that we are just like everyone else.
DookSux –
Always happy to contribute to a cheerful day for someone with such a classic monicker.
Just so you’ll know, last year I was subject to the humiliation of taking my nephew, who had recently been accepted there, to “Blue Devil Day.”
Greater love hath no uncle……..
any news on when other players may get cleared or when rulings on investigation will be announced…
THF and DOC: Give a look at your man, Alpha Wolf, and his calling for an independent investigation: http://www.statefansnation.com.
I personally have no problem with this. AW’s description of the Jimmy V mess is laughable at best, but hey, AW, if you’re reading this I have a challenge for you!!!
Have independent investigators walk on the NC State campus tomorrow morning:
*sequester the football players.
*obtain a copy of the last “paper” each player “wrote” and just ask him a few questions about his “research” and maybe get him to recite back something he “wrote”.
Get back to me about your independent investigation.
Short memory some Wolfpackers have. They’re enjoying all the negative publicity surrounding Carolina but seem to forget that their very own Chancellor resigned after approving a cushy, high-paying job and astronomical raise for the former First Lady.
And we should care about Alpha Wolf’s opinion because . . . ????
I could care less about what Alpha Wolf or StateFans thinks, mainly because everything they say is filtered through their hatred of all things Carolina. They actually have some really good stuff over there from the perspective of stats and in depth knowledge of the Pack. However the anti-UNC vitriol they spew is unbelievable. If they stood back and took an objective view at half of the stuff they write concerning the Heels, they’d realize how petty and sour grapes most of it sounds. However I think their site would be better served to focus more on NC State than on UNC. Note that 9 of the 15 articles on their front page are related to UNC, even though I believe they currently have a football team getting ready to travel to Florida to play a big game. But who cares about that when there is some good old fashioned Carolina bashing to do?
I totally agree with HP in that if the NCAA went digging at most schools (State most definitely included) they’d find plenty. And I have no doubt that some of this existed at UNC well before the current investigation got going. However, now that it is out and we all know about it, I’m ready to deal with it appropriately.
^^^PRGuy gets a +10,000 for that one