This boys and girls is very, very bad.
Prominent NFL agent Gary Wichard and former University of North Carolina assistant football coach John Blake have engaged in multiple financial transactions since May of 2007, a four-month investigation by Yahoo! Sports has found.
Wichard and Blake are now at the center of NCAA and North Carolina Secretary of State probes, which are seeking to determine the nature and scope of alleged agent tampering involving the football program. Those investigations have also focused on Tar Heels defensive tackle Marvin Austin, who has made at least five trips that have come under scrutiny. Two of those trips included training at a California facility less than two miles from Wichard’s agency, Pro Tect Management. Yahoo! Sports has obtained a hotel receipt from one of those trips, which lists Austin’s name above Pro Tect Management, as well as an address and Marriott Rewards number belonging to an NFL marketing agent who represents two current Pro-Tect clients.
The article focuses on financial transactions that occurred between then UNC assistant coach John Blake and agent Gary Wichard. That relationship has already been under scrutiny during the NCAA investigation and the imminent release of phone records by the N&O prompted Blake to resign under the guise he had become a distraction. According to the piece Blake has received several wired transfers and a loan from Wichard’s “private bank.”
But three sources said documents show the relationship between Wichard and Blake also extended into the financial realm several times over the past three years. Those instances included:
• At least six wire transfers from Wichard’s private bank – The First National Bank of Long Island – to Blake.
• A $45,000 personal loan to Blake from The First National Bank of Long Island.
• A Pro Tect Management credit card issued in Blake’s name.
A source familiar with the secretary of state’s probe told Yahoo! Sports that Blake has discussed the existence of the transactions with investigators.
To sum up: That is money changing hands from an agent to an assistant football coach. The presumption is Blake would steer players to Wichard. Now, Kentwan Balmer was the only UNC/Blake player to end up with Wichard. With money changing hands the lack of efficiency is not going to matter. The assumption will be it would happen again, possibly with Marvin Austin. If that was not enough to pretty much screw UNC football for the foreseeable future, there is Austin’s role which included two trips to California in 2009. One of those trips happened in early March, 2009. It was originally believe that Austin had simply stayed with Balmer in a hotel room paid for by the former Tar Heel. That was only partially true. Balmer’s name was on the hotel receipt but so was Pro Tect Management, Wichard’s company. The second trip actually had Austin’s name on the hotel receipt with Pro Tect’s name. Also listed on the receipt was the name of Faddie Mikhail, an NFL marketing agent.
Needless to say the article is in-depth, well sourced and leaves very little to the imagination as to what kind of violations UNC is now facing as a football program. The consensus among national writers and local media on Twitter is that UNC is royally screwed for years to come.
Throughout the two investigations which are now over seventy days old, THF’s position has been to wait for hard evidence before drawing any firm conclusions. We have dealt with the copious flow of information from verified reports to the crush of rumors. Someone can correct me if I am wrong but we have never taken the position that UNC or anyone involved was innocent. Have we made an effort to offer explanations? Sure and to my satisfaction we have done that while considering every possibility good or bad. It has been our intent to discuss these events logically, with intellectual honesty and always with the facts before us. We are biased but I think we kept that bias balanced with reality.
All that being said, it is our belief that this report from Yahoo! constitutes hard evidence. While we have no idea what the NCAA is going to do with this information, we are pretty sure it will involve the words: probation, reduction of scholarships and ban from postseason play with a huge helping of vacated wins on top. Yes, we could contort ourselves into pretzels and make a case that Butch Davis did not know or it was just one assistant coach or player. However, we are not that flexible nor would we actually believe it. Assuming this report is true and there is no reason to believe it isn’t, this is a dark day for UNC athletics.
In light of these revelations, which appear to be true, there is only one course UNC can set at this point. The first is Butch Davis can no longer be the head football coach. The football program, athletic department and by extension the University has been compromised in an incredible manner. While Davis may not have known what Blake was doing, he should have known given how long it went on. Hopefully Davis will do the honorable thing and step aside but if not the Chancellor Holden Thorp is left with little choice but to ask for his resignation or terminate him. Secondly, UNC needs to dismiss Marvin Austin immediately. Since Austin is not even practicing, this is not much of a leap but his role in this mess has been defined from the beginning. This is the final nail in his coffin. Third, once the Williams and Burney appeals are done, UNC needs to allow the hammer to fall where it may with the remaining players in limbo. Let the NCAA do its thing. Let the honor court do its thing. Accept those rulings and move on the best you can.
Based on Baddour’s comments during the day on Wednesday, there is a strong possibility no one at UNC had a full grasp of this. It was known Austin traveled to California in 2009. The connection between Blake and Wichard was known but explained as more of a friendship than business relationship. However the details about financial transactions and Austin’s other trip to California may not have been known. Which begs the question: Does this mean the NCAA opens up a new investigation separate from the one currently going on? It is a possibility which means this will drag on and on and on.
Midway through 2009 if I had told you in 2010 Roy Williams would end up in the NIT and UNC would be facing major violations in football, would you have believed me? Probably not.
Worst. Year. Ever.
Oh and Scott Mooneyham? Now you may call it the worst scandal in 50 years.
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I agree with you in the fact that Butch Davis should be out the door. I do think Butch had some knowledge about Blake and Wichard, hence the forced resignation of Blake earlier this season. Plus, if you’re staring in the face of multiple violations involving agents and academic fraud, then that demonstrates lack of institutional control, IMO. I know I’ve raised the point that this is happening everywhere else and the NCAA is using UNC as an example, but it’s time for Butch to acknowledge that UNC is bigger than him and leave. UNC can do much better with a coach who will be able to recruit the talen he does only to go 8-5.
It will suck for a while, and stretches of seasons with no bowl games will more than likely happen, but I would still prefer rooting for a team that struggles for bowl eligibility that is clean than having all of this crap take place. Clean house; keep no coordinators or assistants either. It’s time to start over and get us out of the same breath as dirty programs like Miami, Florida, USC, and FSU.
For virtually all my life, when I heard “North Carolina,” I thought “clean program.” Now I will have to think, “Who’s getting how much to do what?”
I’m so sorry for the team members who played by the rules. This is going to hurt many innocent people, starting (but unfortunately not ending) with them. And we are only at the beginning.
This money grubbing simply has to stop. If you come to play for Carolina, it’s going to have to be for the love of the game and the many joys of college life. I know that prescription will be criticized as unrealistic, but so be it. We now see what “realism” — which turns out to be cynicism impersonating savvy — brings us. Time to explore a different path.
I still think you are overreacting to this Yahoo story as to any consequences for UNC beyond Austin and Blake. Actually, the Yahoo story has some holes in my mind. Blake got paid for what? Real estate deal? Transfers from Wichard’s “private bank?” What does that mean? It’s not clear to me. We get just enough info to make it look bad, but we don’t really get the answers. Blake certainly didn’t steer any players to Wichard or those players would be in the NFL right now. Calm down, take a deep breath. The end of the story makes it clear that Austin thought Balmer was paying for the motel room. It’s a mess, but intent is important here. And I still don’t see what Butch Davis has done. This doesn’t look good, and that’s the intent of Yahoo, but I think you’ve overreacted.
Tony is a true diehard. Unfortunately, it isn’t going to matter why the money was given to Blake. UNC football is in an enormous pile of doo doo
Baddour wants a successful football program to give a revenue stream for all those sports which don’t make money. I am tired of that logic. Its time to cut sports and have a smaller football expectation. Reputation is worth more than what we are going through
In the words of Private Hudson in Aliens:
“That’s it man, game over man, game over! What the f*ck are we gonna do now? What are we gonna do?
“They’re coming outta the walls. They’re coming outta the goshdamn walls. Let’s book!”
1. Davis
2. Baddour
3. Sue Blake into the stone age, I want his old socks…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsx2vdn7gpY
“We’d better get inside because it will be dark soon and they come at night.”
really, is this any worse than the tutor-gate revelations? lack of institutional control has been in evidence before this. Baddour goes too if this blows up-that’s really the silver lining for me, that we get a real AD, not some David Stern clone.
There’s a storm coming.
We’ll just have to wait & see what happens. It might not be as bad as one would think/project on our program. Still seems limited to just a handful of personele. How broad can you cast a punishment net with things involving limited players? And who knows when the dust even settles? I hate to see wins vacated, but I’d take that over futuristic punishments. The article does seem damning, but leaves a few questions, and hopefully those will be on our side.
UNC has now passed USC. Even the Trojans didn’t have an assistant coach working for an NFL agent simultaneously, and given the transactions obtained by Yahoo Sports, it would appear that John Blake was a runner for Gary Wichard.
You saw what USC got — under the old regime of the NCAA. Mark Emmert, the new NCAA president, takes office 10/5 and UNC and its fans may well want to listen to what he has already said:
“The key is trying to get the penalties to line up with the bad behavior and getting others to change so that they play within the rules.”
In other words, it is a very bad time to be first in line for the new guy who is intent on making an example of out-of-bounds programs.
Quite frankly, in retrospect, what Dick Baddour said yesterday in Raleigh sounds now like reassuring words from Captain Edward Smith to his crew in the middle of the night of April 15th, 1912.
That was the night his ship HMS Titanic sunk taking him and his crew to the bottom of the sea.
I still can’t believe the Athletic Department let Butch Davis hire Blake in the first place. By doing so, Baddour invited trouble to come to UNC…and I don’t want to hear any crap about “how could he have known?”… there has been trouble everywhere Blake has been. There needs to be a wholesale shakeup now. Davis and Baddour both need to be gone either at the end of the season or as soon as the NCAA announces their findings, whichever comes first.
And can somebody, ANYBODY (Sec. of State, NCAA, NFL, etc.) make Wichard feel some pain over this as well?
P.S. Didn’t Blake receive a big severance payment when he resigned? Hey – University Administrators – Go and get that money back! (Or take it out of Butch Davis’ bloated salary)
saw this comment somewhere else, and find it appropriate: Heeloshima
Alpha Wolf,
The difference between UNC and USC is that once things came to light, UNC at least made an effort to work with the NCAA. The self-report of the academic violations, I think will also mitigate.
Is this going to get ugly? Yes, very ugly. But I don’t think we’ll get it quite as bad as USC if, for no other reason than the fact that our administration is actually investigating this and going along with the NCAA rather than dragging its feet and flagrantly sticking its nose up in the air the way USC did.
And, 850, I agree. It’s time to lay the hammer on the agents and Blake and send the message that we’re effing around anymore. That’s the only way to change things, because otherwise, the people most responsible for this mess (Wichard, Austin, Blake) will get off without any punishment while UNC is left to pay the tab.
“UNC has now passed USC”. Until UNC pays a bball player cash under the table for their services *cough OJ Mayo, we are not yet close to USC
we’re the USC of the East if people think we are, and most likely, people are going to think we are.
before, there was at least a thread of hope to cling to. that we could demonstrate we werent a dirty program. that thread is now severed, burned and swept away.
all people are going to remember is money, 1000s, agents, trips, tutor wrote papers.
i guess Baddour had no idea this was coming yesterday.
and those high-ranking recruits we thought were going to weather the storm. well…buh-bye.
sickening.
why the HELL didnt Austin just go pro when he had the chance? for what?
No, alpha is right. At USC football, Bush was paid by an agents. But Players are not employees of the school. An assistant coach/employee getting paid equivalent $$ by an agent (for work) is much, much, much worse. It shouldn’t matter that butch didn’t know. I love UNC, but the NCAA should nail us to the cross for this one.
Again, I reiterate that UNC hasn’t made it a point to try and obstruct the NCAA at every possible point in the investigation. It took the NCAA FIVE YEARS to nail USC because of that obstruction. Carolina is doing its damnedest to bring this all out and will likely count for something.
is there anything in the story saying that the NCAA is already aware of the details of Yahoo’s investigation?
i’m not seeing it.
that Butch has recently said MA is earning his way back would seem to indicate Butch didnt know about this information. there’s no working your way back from THIS.
so that would mean a re-opening or further expansion of the MA prong.
@dschwind – That is like saying if you murder someone, but help the police find the body, you should get a break.
Not only did we do bad things, but we did bad things badly.
Agents: Just one player signed
School: 0 titles
an agent working with a player is bad, but USC also had their basketball coach paying players cash under the table. Lets not forget that…. Yes UNC is dirty and BUTCH needs to be fired, but USC is worse than UNC
^wow, thats, uh, great news. *eyeroll*
MA is going to be moving on the the NFL.
Blake probably will, too, at some point.
Davis is probably through here.
the program is stained, and will be back to mediocre.
the University is shamed.
Wichard will still be a B-level agent.
and all because MA didnt just go ahead and go pro.
wb3,
That’s not even close to the same thing. Murder would be paying players under the table, buying them cars and the head coach and AD creating slush funds to do this sort of thing. (Like SMU in the 80s or Bama in the 90s). This is being an unwitting accomplice to a crime and then taking a plea bargain. I already said, I agree this is going to get ugly but we are NOT USC.
I’d also like to think aloud and wonder why there’s no effort in this story whatsoever to not get a comment from Baddour, Butch or Thorp. Anyone that’s ever been to journalism school will tell you that the first rule of investigative journalism is getting comments on the record, even if that comment is “no comment.” And, no, “I just figured they would say ‘No comment’” is not a legitimate reason for not getting the university’s side of things.
In my opinion, an assistant coach being a paid employee of a sports agency and then connecting his players to that agency is murder in the NCAA sense.
UNC committed a crime because Blake committed a crime. Blake was UNC at that time. Any other analysis just let’s UNC off the hook and doesn’t pass the smell test. NCAA needs to set precedent here.
that we are “not USC” is pointless. are we reduced to defending where we are on the Top 10 worst violators, and celebrating we arent #1?
who cares.
this is about us, UNC.
AND, Tony Curtis has died.
what a S**T day.
no wonder its raining.
I have a bit of a conspiracy theory concerning Butch Davis. Does anyone else remember how he’s been pointing to the 2010 season as his tentative “breakthrough year” ever since he was hired? Could it be possible that he was willing to look the other way with regard to shady behavior (by Blake, the players, and others) as long as it kept his plans for 2010 on track? It was definitely a tremendous boost for the team’s prospects this year when all our draft-eligible studs decided to return to school, and now we find out that at least one of them did so because he received some pretty sweet inducements for doing so. How much of this went on, and how much of it was done with Coach Davis’s tacit approval, considering the outcome suited his plans for the season?
To pursue a more sinister angle, it’s known that Butch Davis kept the tutor at the heart of the academic scandal in his employ well after she was let go by the university. Could this have been done because Coach Davis knew more of what was going on than he’s been admitting to? Did he keep the tutor in his employ so that she could continue to provide “help” to the players she had befriended? I’ve been dismissing this particular bit of Raleigh-born innuendo for a while now, but knowing what we know now of Coach Davis’s missteps in the matter (at the very least, he’s guilty of failure to properly monitor and control his players and at least one of his assistant coaches), I just can’t be so sure anymore.
Does anyone still remember that Facebook post from Corey Miller, the former DE recruit who ended up going to Tennessee? His accusation that Blake tried to pay him “under tha table” was widely dismissed as teenage posturing on the internet, but isn’t it time to consider it in a new light?
Guys, I am an ACC fan ok, and the fact that the discussion here has reached a debate about whether UNC is as bad as USC says it all. It is a very sad catastrophe for the whole 16 school system. Whats messed up and needs to be changed(and is starting to, as you will see Blake and the agent prosecuted by NC) is the legal system needs to punish people, not a Pseudo governing body like the NCAA that ignorantly punishes only the innocent left behind, and even more outrageously, the future players for years to come! The whole college football system is about to be taken over by the University’s($)as demonstrated by Texas, Notre Dame, Nebraska, and others. The NCAA, and its ridiculous antiquated legislative process will soon be a thing of the past
We are definitely not USC. We went 4-8, 8-5, and 8-5 while we were breaking the rules, while USC was winning big. As boulderHeel said, we did bad things badly.
At least we will not have to vacate any bowl wins, right? See, a silver lining in every cloud.
I’m ready for this crap to end now. If it means we get the firing squad, so be it. At least after this mess when I spend $50 a ticket to watch the Heels play, I’ll know that the coaches and players on the field care about the program.
We’ve survived the Bunting years, we’ll survive this. I just hope that fans will still support the school and the program, and still be there to cheer on a team that might go 3-9 for the next few years.
DSchwind -
Seriously? You think that the “self-reporting” of the academic violations will mitigate any of these other scandalous tidbits floating down the pipes? And by “self-reporting” I’m assuming you mean our good ol’ AD Thorp making an anouncement about the academic violations AFTER the NCAA found out about the tutor in question during interviews with football players involved with the agents/runners…? Self-reporting…really?!
I for one am ashamed of what is going on at UNC. This transcends anything regarding the football program and concerns the overall INTEGRITY of the fine academic quality of UNC and the UNC System.
Yahoo! Sports is clearly on top of this and there is more to come I’m afraid. As for the monies that Blake took from Wichard who’s to say that those monies WEREN’T used in “paying the players under the table”? I’m not saying they were, but “what if”? There’s a mushroom cloud hanging over Chapel Hill right now and all we can hope is that it doesn’t extend five years from now and the net being cast doesn’t pull in other sports programs as well.
wb3, You do realize that a murderer will almost always get a break on his sentence if he confesses and enters a guilty plea opposed to going through with the trial, right?
So, even though they are not the same at all. Your point would support the opposite of what you are trying to say.
I have been a NC State fan since birth, and I also love the Acc. I played in High School at the most successful program in NC(Reidsville 19 State Titles in Football), then at WCU in college, my Grandfather was Dean of the Graduate School and helped found ASU in 1924 he rode the mail wagon up the mountain…so I am not a “hater” of other ACC/Southern Conference/SEC teams, but it has reached the point that even High School Purist’s are being corrupted by ESPN/Agents etc. It is not the institutions(Press, Agents), but the people with access have just plain old dishonesty and greed. Again, put people in jail for breaking the law, and the problem will slow down a bit. Ask Bonds, or Clemmons, or MLB if u want proof.
HeelYeah – I won’t support any football team that is coached by someone hired by Dick Baddour. His personnel decisions have ruined our football program. (And he damn near ruined the basketball program too – lets not forget, this is the man who hired Matt Doherty….). Get me a new coach, hired by a new AD and, as long as the team is clean, I’ll root for them regardless of how bad their record is. But I will no longer blindly cheer for Dick Baddour’s mistakes.
Dschwind – you are right. If a murderer confesses, he will often get a life sentence instead of the death penalty. That should make us all feel much better.
Butch Davis on 620AM:
this story is news to him.
Alpha Wolf:
Let me preface things by saying that I’ve been reading the things you post (both at Red and White and SFN) for quite a while, and you’re a good guy. You don’t go foaming at the mouth at every mention of UNC like so many of your fellow fans do, and you also don’t go around slinging mud or directing epithets at UNC players and fans. With that being said, may I ask you to refrain from posting on this issue until we (the UNC fans here at THF, collectively speaking) have had a couple of days’ time to gauge our reactions to this story and process its practical and emotional ramifications? Even though what you posted is logical and well thought-out, we’re probably not ready to hear from a State supporter this soon after the news broke. I realize that you and THF (both the person and the blog) go back a long ways, but not all of the other UNC fans who post here are going to know that — to some of them, what you write is going to seem like a Wolfpack fan gloating and taunting us at our darkest moment. By and large, THF is free of the knee-jerk, lowest-common-denominator types littered liberally around the IC free board, but I can’t guarantee that some of them won’t find this thread and react violently to whatever you post. Personally, I just think it best for you to give us a little time to collectively calm down, so that we can resume discussing things with reasonable rival fans, such as yourself, in an atmosphere of mutual respect rather than acrimony.
850inExile, I actually wrote that assuming that Butch is gone (and possibly Baddour), which I think is pretty inevitable at this point. If he is kept on it will only make this mess worse.
What if Austin had never tweeted about his Miami trip? #deepthoughts
I think what bothers me as far as the whole NC State angle is that the site that represents them the best (SFN) acts like this is such a wonderful thing to happen, like a big Christmas present to State fans. I don’t care for the Wolfpack, and I could also care less if they win another game, but I don’t want to see them (or any other ACC institution) in trouble with the NCAA. It isn’t good for the ACC, and it isn’t good for our rivalry. All we have to do is look at what happened to them after the whole Valvano fiasco. They went from being our biggest rival in basketball to a laughingstock, and that didn’t help either school.
UNC and NC State are fine universities and the state of NC should be proud that they are around. Anything that tarnishes that image is bad for everyone, and I don’t wish it on any rival (even dook).
If this crap was going on the way it sounds, then I’m glad that Austin tweeted. This type of behavior has no place at UNC (or anywhere), and it needed to come to light. Time to clean house and go back to being a basketball school I guess.
sigh.
hard to get excited or more bummed about anything else, but the N&O also with a story that there are 70(!) cases in from of the UNC Honor Court, and who knows where the football players’ are in the queue.
70!
In defense of NC State and its followers…the entire fiasco involving Valvano is still embedded in their minds and, if I remember correctly, UNC and Duke fans did NOT make it easy on them despite the fact that the investigations (all umpteen million of them; including the NCAA’s) found no lack of institutional control or wrong doing concerning the Athletic Department or its coaches. It was a couple of bone-head athletes selling shoes and tickets. That’s a hard thing to forget when it runs your beloved sports program into the ground for the next 20 years. Can ya blame ‘em? Really blame them?
wb3,
Exactly. Who knew that Marvin Austin’s twitter account was actually a portal to hell, giving Evil easy access to the UNC campus?
^^ or if Chris Hawkins had never tweeted who he was hanging with in ATL. There’s a reason why he was kicked off the team by the previous regime.
Still, Yahoo throws stuff out there but doesn’t explain it or give a chance for explanation. How much were the wire transfers? $50 for football tickets or maybe Blake had loaned Wichard money? There are things we still don’t know. If I were to get a loan from The First National Bank of Long Island, would I also be an agent for Wichard? It doesn’t say a loan from Wichard, it says a loan from a bank. We all knew Blake’s relationship with Wichard, and I don’t think this is anything new. I still think it’s overreaction to Yahoo throwing some stuff out there and hoping you guys will let it stick, like you have.
We aren’t USC for at least three reasons. First, USC consistently put out (bought?) national championship-calibre teams. Their players were all huge. Just to look at them, you figured this was an NFL team.
Second, USC had a long history of corruption. For as bad as the current situation might turn out to be for us, we don’t have that history at all.
Third, the USC head coach was in it up to his ears. In our case, the worst that’s been said of Davis is that he was willfully blind, or (the more frequent accusation) insufficiently attentive to what was going on around him.
From an aesthetic point of view, the worst thing about this is that actual football games have been left at the roadside and all we talk about is law (in one form or another). Most of us were really looking forward to this season; now it’s all but down the drain. And it’s still only September.
This is a total bummer.
tonyc -
Aren’t you being just a little niave`? You don’t have the aforementioned relationship with Wichard that Blake does/did so you getting a loan is not really the same.
Patience is needed here…there is a lot more that will come out and we just have to hope that ALL of the dirty laundry gets aired out so there is no further questioning UNC’s integrity. Fix it and move on from there…it’s about all anybody can do at this point.
Does anyone know why Blake got that 75k(?) when he resigned?
THF,
This just raises more questions. You are taking this WAY TOO FAR. This does not prove that anyone (or entity) is guilty, and it certainly does not help prove their innocence, either (But nothing this summer has helped to prove innocence).
There are only three thoughts/questions (not facts) that we can take away from this:
1.) Either, Wichard, Blake, Austin, Balmer, lawyers, and NCAA/UNC are all lying, or they are ignorant. Some Combination of ignorance and lying has occurred here, and I don’t think we can come to any conclusions beyond that (like who lied, what for, when, where, why).
2.) We need more information to determine whether or not Balmer or the Agent paid for Austin’s trip. This flow of money is going to look messy and choppy to the average person, because of the nature of private banking/agent representation. Private banking/agent representation handles almost everything for celebrities. Consequently, Balmer could have paid for Austin’s expenses through his representatives (Whichard/Mikhail). We could solve this mystery by looking at Wichard’s fee schedule, records of services rendered to Balmer, and Balmer/Wichards’s bank records.
3.) The Wichard/Blake financial dealings do not prove that Wichard was paying Blake to steer athletes to his agency. This is correlation, not causation. These loans and wire transfers could have occurred for a number of reasons. We need more information. What type of loan did Blake receive (paper work, covenants, etc)? Perhaps, we could determine the cause here, with recorded phone conversations or wire taps, which is not going to happen.
Now with that said, I have two feelings about all of these issues and questions.
1.) When I was working as a swim coach, I tried not to ever put myself in a situation that could compromise my reputation (like hanging out with a kid away from the pool). There are certain things that all coaches and teachers learn quickly. Clearly, these “innocent” bystanders have failed in that regard.
2.) I think it is pretty clear why this is taking so long. The players appear to be saying that they have done nothing wrong, but the NCAA/UNC/N.C.SofS has a lot of well justified questions, that SHOULD BE ANSWERED.
^^Best case scenario is that it’s because our University Administrators are completely inept.
Worst case scenario is that it was so he would keep his mouth shut.
worst case scenario Austin Rivers commits to DOOK, oh wait that just happened…. Dook looking pretty good the next couple of years..
he was probably going there all along, but it isnt too far fetched to think that being in the national news for football problems has SOME effect on hoops recruiting, even if its just 5% or less.
http://www.slamonline.com/online/college-hs/high-school/2010/09/rivers-makes-the-call/
^^My guess is that when he looked at UNC he saw a crowded backcourt (Bullock, Hairston, Stickland) in the future, and it always sounded like him coming to UNC was a long shot but its still more bad news on a day that seems to be full of bad news…
And I do agree that, to some degree, the fiasco in the football program is probably making the recruiting environment more difficult in other sports as well.
hes a dook guy, like Barnes is a UNC guy. Good to know that Irving will now be one and done to make room for Rivers. Rivers is a great player, but Irving’s speed scares me more
How is a guy who was going to Duke all along finally committing the worse case scenario? It is actually a blessing because now Roy won’t waste additional time recruiting him and can hopefully close on a post player which is currently the more vital need.
Now if McAdoo changes his commitment to the Evil Empire then wake me up.
The worse case scenario here (outside of finding that Robinson or Haas have been doing a similar thing on bball side of the house) would be to hear the words “Lack Of Institutional Control” come from the mouths of the NCAA.
Again, although this does not look good, I would not jump to conclusions on who should be fired or not just yet. Need to know who knew what and when, before the heads start to roll.
And starting at the Top is not Butch Davis, but Baddour. But again let both sides of the story come out first before we all grab the pitchforks and torches.
Or maybe everyone should follow the preaching’s of that MORON Thomas on 99 TheFan who said that Carolina should fire Davis now and promote Browning to head coach. What a TOOL, that’s ridiculous even for that Cow College Homer.
IPF, a significant portion of the malaise that was NC State basketball following the V scandal was a result of actions by NC State. They threw V under the bus (unfairly? I don’t know), and the administration decided that basketball no longer mattered. Or at least that is the way they made it appear. If it took 20 years for the basketball program to regroup then that can’t be blamed on the NCAA or opposing fans.
Also, don’t paint all UNC folks with the same brush. I have no doubt that many were unduly hard on the Pack at the time, but not all felt that way. Many folks were ashamed/disappointed, but many Wolfpackers were as well. And many UNC fans (myself included) are ashamed that this is currently happening. I think the average “real” UNC fan (not the Wal-Mart variety) was not happy when State went down hard. Maybe I’m being naive, but it is sort of like the Civil War. You didn’t want your enemy to win, but since he was your brother or cousin you didn’t necessarily want him dead either.
The lead-in line to this story says it all. “this boys and girls is very very bad”. Some here seem to be parsing their comments in an effort to lessen the degree of guilt. Useless folly! The football program of this University has trampled upon the integrity of the University of North Carolina and brought unwarranted shame to the honest parties involved. The only viable solution is to rid this University of ALL transgressors be they players, coaches or administrators. Accept the punishment that is sure to come and move on! This University and this state deserve no less. As a fan and as an alumnus of a still great UNC-CH this is all that I want.
#takeoutthegarbage
I have to agree with those asking “what does this story prove that we didn’t already know?” My answer to that question would be, not much. We already knew that Marvin Austin was a shady character with his hand out, and probably would not be back. We also already knew that Blake and Wichard were too closely tied for comfort, but that no players other than Kentwan Balmer had been steered to Wichard. With the exception of Austin, previously outed as a bad seed, and Balmer, who is old news, what else does this report tell us?
nativeheel, I’m surprised you can read anyone’s comments from your high horse.
No one is trying to lessen the amount of guilt, the problem is no one except for maybe the NCAA and UNC have all the pieces to the puzzle yet. So before everyone starts handing out punishment, how about we get 100% of the story instead of a fraction, so we don’t throw out the baby with the bath water.
Your comments remind me of a quote from Dick Crum in the 80′s:
University of North Carolina wants you to be Harvard during the week and Oklahoma on Saturdays.
All I know is this: I’m not happier about our football program now then I was before we hired the current coaches (and that’s saying a lot, because I was pretty unhappy about our program under Bunting). As a fan, that is my ultimate measurement of the success or failure of the coaching staff. If they can’t give me a football program I can feel happier about (…and they haven’t…) then the one we had before then I don’t think they’ve done a good job.
scl11, +1
If every university were to purge all transgressors, there’d be nothing left. (DISCLAIMER: I am **NOT** saying that it is OK to to accept pro money, cheat on tests, go on illegal tests or do anything that would otherwise violate NCAA rules.) There’s a lot of things going on at every school ranging from a bit shady, to downright dirty. We got caught. It happens, and it sucks and now we have to pay the consequences. But to pretend that this isn’t happening outside of Chapel Hill, NC is to be downright naive.
When I said earlier that self-reporting would mitigate things, I wasn’t saying we’d dance of into the sunset hand-in-hand with the NCAA. Far from it. As I said, this is going to get ugly and words like “probation” are likely. But we are not USC and we’re not SMU and we’re not Alabama. As scl11 said, only the NCAA knows for sure what happened, but when you look and see that we’re not repeat offenders and we’re actually cooperating with the investigation, that WILL count for something.
I will admit that stuff like this is (probably) going on at all schools. It is the scale of what is being revealed at Chapel Hill that in my eyes sets this apart from all but the most heinous transgressions of other programs in the past.
I agree that the scale of things is awful, but what I’m saying is, if you dig deep enough at any school, I think you’ll find some equally heinous stuff. We just had a DT who was stupid enough to leave the door open during the party when the cops drove by.
Dig six feet down, maybe you’ll find a body or three; Dig 12, you might find 40.
Dick Baddour doesn’t sound too worried.
http://northcarolina.scout.com/2/1007575.html
^What else is Baddour supposed to say? “Yeah, I guess I did hire the worst coach in UNC’s history, even though you already thought I had done that when I hired John Bunting and even though you already thought I had done that when I hired Matt Doherty and even though you already thought I had done when I hired Carl Torbush. Man, am I on a roll or what?”
Most benign explanation: Blake needed $ for some reason, Wichard is a good buddy, made some loans. Unlikely, but a problem even if true. Most likely, Blake was running for Wichard, may have enlisted Marvin in the effort, scrilla for all. That gets Butch canned, skollies reduced, probation and maybe a postseason ban. If Hawkins is in on it and/or the academic issues are in some way related (or tied to higher ups) a bowl ban is coming too. How does Dickie survive yet another mess?
sc11, I own no horses and sit no higher than anyone. I am just tired of the BS surrounding this football program that has tarnished the image of a great university. I agree that we need to get 100% of the story. Can you tell us what it is? No.
Want to add speculation and rumor. Go for it! I have read enough of it both here and elsewhere to far exceed my wants already.
I want my university to be “clean” during the week as well as on Saturdays. Football is minor in this equation. At present it is not.
What do you want?
NCSU fan here. Condolences on having to suffer for the crap decisions of your athletic department. I was going to cram some medicine down your throat but you all seem to be taking it like class acts (compared to some fans on other boards). Get well soon <3
Don’t jump to conclusions. I think the Blake situation is not great, but it isn’t as awful as you think either. In any event, we have very little information. That information is circumstantial.
Chill till we know. Calling this a thermonuclear detonation is fanning the flames.
It IS that bad. And it’s going to get WORSE.
The SecState investigation sealed the deal, because until that point, people who didn’t tell the truth risked jail time. For example – no state investigators, no bank records. Let’s hope they’ve uncovered everything there is to find, but investigations like these usually stumble across 3 or 4 unwanted headlines before they are through.
Who knew what, and when did they know it? Doesn’t matter. The NCAA is not a court of law; they have buried programs with far less circumstantial evidence than they have right now. I suffered through Carolina football 86-90 (Crum’s last 2 years, then two 1-10 years), but I never had a feeling during that period that I have right now. I have watched a lot of NCAA cases over the years, and anyone who thinks UNC’s reputation or cooperation will keep a lid on this thing is fooling themselves. The sanctions will at least match USC’s, and that’s simply based on what we know right now.
You know, the hardest part of sports and being a fan of your school and your team is unmet expectations. Eight wins last year was tough as we had higher expectations but it was great compared to the Bunting era. Same thing at State, four years with a losing record, “pack your bags, pack your bags, we don’t want you”, now it seems like TOB is the next Bear Bryant, well here comes October. It’s hard NOT to over react when something like this breaks after weeks of silence and confusion. Suddenly Dickie is all over the East Coast meeting the local 4-H club talking about the situation then blammo…it’s not easy being a heel right now.
Regardless, you put so much into being fair and measured and hoping for the best but it just keeps getting worse. I know it could be limited to a few people and clearly UNC and the NCAA know about all this Blake business but damn. It’s just tough to deal with all the time. I appreciate some of the sentiment from NCSU fans here but I’ve seen little anywhere else. As to just dropping Lack of institutional control well, good luck with that, we will find out…
Here’s a decent clarification of LOIC by the NCAA, I might have a higher standard for UNC but this is the standard we will be measured against:
“Since the “lack of institutional control” phrase has been thrown around incorrectly a lot over the past couple of weeks, an accurate definition is required. There are four pillars of institution control that the NCAA considers when making a determination about a specific athletic program – (1) compliance systems, (2) monitoring/enforcement, (3) rules education and (4) commitment to compliance.
As for Davis’s role, according to NCAA Bylaw 11.1.2.1, a head coach has “a responsibility to promote an atmosphere for compliance within the program and monitor the activities of assistants and staff who report directly or indirectly to the head coach.”” – Inside Carolina
http://northcarolina.scout.com/2/1007635.html
I do not think that UNC is hiding, aiding or covering anything up, Searcy is a perfect example, we held out a player due to our concern, not the NCAA’s. Tell me where is your evidence of LOIC there Alpha? Don’t answer that as I don’t want your opinion, I’ll wait for the facts and the judgement.
Did you guys hear that Blakes Lawyers have proof that all of the Transfers stopped prior to him being a coach at UNC? This is great news if it is true!
While you guys have been jumping off the ledge all day, this points to what I’ve been saying all along.
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/10/01/1730020/lawyers-blake-accepted-money-as.html