Well. Um. Yeah…that was really crappy wasn’t it?
First of all Minnesota is a very good defensive team. You can tell UNC was rattled very early by the Gophers’ defensive intensity. Passes UNC was making versus an overmatched Hofstra team were not working against Minnesota. The intensity obviously bothered UNC and toss everyone out of sync. Yeah, the officiating did not help either in terms of the game flow but that is really neither here nor there. As it was UNC had troubles running the offense, shot poorly from all over the place and really has not established an identity as a team with a clear idea of who should be taking the shots on crucial offensive possessions. This team has growing to do. This game does not make the Hofstra game a fluke nor is itself a fluke. There will be some ups and downs with various new parts gelling which was the case in 2006 and 2007 if you recall.
Harrison Barnes is going to garner a lot of attention for his 0-12 shooting night and only five points via the free throw line. I know there is an adjustment from the high school to the college level. I also know Barnes has tremendous pressure on him. Still, all the evidence leading up to this season indicated Barnes was level headed and could handle the transition from a mental standpoint. That does not appear to be the case as he looks like a player who is forcing it too much. Now, you could argue the lack of offensive execution by the team is causing Barnes to feel the need to do more on his own. What I find slightly disconcerting is even a good player who is well defended can find a way to make shots. Barnes could not buy one. It was like he was shooting buckets at the state fair. At the same time, law of averaged and probably other corollaries C.Michael knows dictate that such a performance will certainly turn out to be an outlier. Well, except there was also the exhibition game where the same thing happened. By no means would I push the panic button on Barnes. His skills and focus mean there will come a point he will simply take a game like this over and carry the Heels. Had Barnes done that tonight, UNC wins. Heck, had he shot 40% it possibly changes the dynamics of the game enough. Also, no more stories about late night shooting sessions. We get it. He’s focused and works hard. At some point you have to see results. I can be patient about it but stories of hard work sands real results start to ring hollow the 3rd or 4th time it is trotted out.
The PG debate is going to heat up again after this one. I think Roy is starting to get a sense for it as there was a long stretch in the 2nd half where Kendall Marshall was on the floor and Larry Drew was not. Drew’s night was not good in many respects though I am not convinced the offensive woes can be laid at his feet. The whole team played poorly on the offensive end, even with Marshall on the floor. The stat comparison is problematic for Drew however.
Drew: 24 mins 2 points, 1-5 FG, 0-1 3P, 3 assists, 4 TOs, 1 steal, 3 rebs
Marshall: 17 mins 7 points, 3-5 FG, 1-2 3P, 4 assists, 1 TOs, 1 steal, 1 reb
The fact Drew played seven more minutes makes the difference starker. Again, I am not sure the offense was much better with one vs the other. However, you have to wonder what happens if Marshall is given a consistent chunk of minutes. Now, things are still early and I know people are ready to make the change now but we all know Roy isn’t going to that. He is going to give Drew a little more time to prove his worth but given Marshall’s play over the course of three games, the case is building for him to start. If it plays out like this for 2-3 more games, I am not sure how you don’t pull the trigger.
Tyler Zeller was actually a bright spot all things considered. Zeller missed a huge chunk of time with foul trouble but still put up 16 and made a few hook shots in the 2nd half to give UNC some offense. His issues with opposing big men of bulk was evident but Zeller is much improved over last season. Likewise John Henson was outmuscled but still collected 12 rebounds, three blocks and scored nine points. The interior play was not all that bad given how well the Minnesota big men played. Dexter Strickland had an interesting game scoring 7 points on 3-3 shooting which included a three. Strickland had only one turnover vs 2 assists and 2 steals. In the case of Strickland it strikes me as a “why isn’t he doing more?” kind of deal. I think Strickland is tentative. He showed a couple of times in this game that he has great speed, athleticism and vertical. I would like to see him exploiting his skill set more and being aggressive. Then there was Reggie Bullock who had 11 points and really looked like a guy giving his all out there, even if he was going to get beaten on defense.
Leslie McDonald and Justin Watts struggled for the most part which is a shame considering how well that played versus Hofstra. These two sort of answer the question I posed in the preview of whether UNC can be consistent from one game to the next. The answer is clearly not yet. Consistency from game to game comes from a cohesive unit who understands their identity and players have a grasp on their roles. That has not happened yet and we might be a little foolish to expect it to happen this early. Remember, there is only one player on this team that has a full season with starter’s minutesat UNC: Larry Drew. Zeller has not had a full season yet. Henson only played big minutes at the tail end of last season. Watts and McDonalds played not much at all and Strickland was hit or miss. Justin Knox played plenty at Alabama but that was a different school, teammates and system. Add three freshmen to the mix and you have 10 players who are not used to play with each other in live action. It is going to take some time for this crew to come together as a team. Until then, a bad individual performance from a player like Barnes is going to hurt more.
For any fan, patience is not in our nature but this team requires some. This isn’t last season’s team but it is not the #8 team in the country either. This a team in transition and at times it might not be pretty but I think they will ultimately get there.
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Felipe Lopez had a pretty good college career.
Vanderbilt.
UNC-A.
College of Charleston.
then the guano hits the spinny cooly thing.
***
meanwhile, its time to beat State. 12 hours and counting.
CoC still has that guard that killed us too.
Lots of things stick out to me on the box score, but the biggest thing to me is 15/25 from the foul line. Terrible, and John Henson’s going to be an easy target to foul in a close game because he only went 1/6 from the stripe.
I didn’t get to see the game tonight, but outside of the free throws, there are a couple of other things I noticed. First, was how whoever was guarding Blake Hoffarber hit five three’s (even though he missed nine) on them, and second the freshman duo of Bullock and Marshall seem to be more apt at creating offense than Strickland (only three FG attempts) and Drew. As much as I like Drew and Strickland’s slashing ability which he seems somewhat hesitant to use, there will be nights where we need all the offense we can get if Barnes can’t seem to buy a shot.
It’s still way too early in the season, and I think Roy is in somewhat of a nice dilemna with the freshman talent he has around him. A five point loss to a decent team with a really good coach is understandable, but it’s still a game that should have wound up in our favor.
Since you didn’t get to see the game I will tell you that Strickland actually did have a decent game, and really does deserve to continue to get time on the court. For the second game in a row he got a three, he did drive to the basket and his defense was also above average. Honestly HE should be backing up Marshall at the point and Larry should, well Larry should just go away honestly. OK maybe that’s extreme but he shouldn’t get more then 10 minutes of playing time a game.
I think Minnesota’s length caused a lot of problems for UNC. I am disappointed with the way UNC defended Hoffarber. The guy does only one thing, and the Heels couldn’t stop that. If there is one positive I can take out of this game, it would have to be Justin Knox. He isn’t great, but he is turning out being a very solid player. I was expecting less aggressive rebounder, but in limited minutes he has done a decent job on the boards.
A sloppy game at best decided by our lack of execution on defense and poor shooting from the field and from the charity stripe. Not suprising from a team made up of guys with little game time as a group. We are still a work in progress.
I think the unwarranted pre-season praise of Barnes is a curse!
Freshman players can and do make a difference but they do not make a team! Experience does and will!
I hate to admit it but I do not think this team can win championships with LD II at point guard. His play is just not up to UNC standards. I would welcome a change in primary point guards from this point forward.
of all the players that looked inexperienced, there was one that look aggressive,purposeful and pretty good………KM
tubby trotted out the goon squad and they paid off because we are presently a liability at the FREE THROW line. this is a problem of the highest magnitude
Well were going to see that performance all year. Zeller is unable to keep his feet on the ground playing defense so he is going to see alot of bench time. Anyone know what happened to the “secondary break”? Oh yeah our PG stinks. LD2 only went inside once, mostly he just dribbled it down pass the half court line and doled it off. We have no interior defense due to no size, and we can’t shoot from outside due to the pressure the other team is able to apply from us having no interior game that they have to defend. Oh well as my dad used to say “we’ll get ‘em next year but unfortunately well lose any player worth a hoot to the draft, and our hopes will be once again on untested freshman to carry the load. Sorry for being a downer. Go Heels
I think it’s crucial to take into account Minny is exactly the team prototype I think we all thought we’d struggle with–a slew of brauny dudes on the blocks who have enough skill to rebound and make high % shots. There are only 5-6 teams in the country with the kind of big depth that Minny displayed last night IMO–reason for optimism.
Also, wish we would dial back the overplay on D occasionally. The refs were calling it tight and it was as if our coaches were saying: Be more aggressive on the ball. I thought that hurt us end game when we needed to play solid D. Remember most steals incl two of Stricks and one of Zellers were on OFF ball overplays.
Agree with faustus: Knox was a plus tonight as was Strick.
Good Summary THF,
I agree with everything you are saying with a few nuances.
Drew2–I still think his issue is decision making. His shooting percentage was bad because 3 out 5 of those shots. He just got caught, picking up his dribble and took some crazy shot. I think Roy will pull him, unless he is showing something different in practice and this is a fluke. Maybe in practice, he has shown the ability to drop floaters in the lane after driving, and he has been making awesome decisions. It is a shame, because he seems to have the natural athleticism. Does anyone know if he has been playing better in practice this year?
Strickland-His defense was pretty good at times. You can see why Roy thinks his athleticism could make him a good defender. I agree with THF. He was tentative/poor decision-making though on the offensive end. Again, maybe he is showing something different in practice. (I hope so.)
Barnes–I agree. I think he is going to be alright, just forcing it. He seems to be having trouble adjusting to the quickness and strength of the college game. His hardwork will pay off, though. In the meantime, he needs to find other ways to contribute. Like more steals, movement without the ball, and offensive rebounds. We saw signs in the game that he wants to do those little things.
Henson–A lot of positives, but I agree: the free throws were just pathetic.
Zeller—Good.
Knox—Good. He laid out a killer screen at one point to free up Marshall. He seems to do a lot of little things.
Watts—He kind of got worked by Minn. bigs. I can kind of see how he could play well at the 4. He looks strong, quick, and athletic enough. He just needs to better utilize those tools on the defensive end. I am not ready to give up on this. I think he can rise up.
McDonald–Agree with THF. I just hope he doesn’t turn into that Mel Scott x-factor, where he’ll hit couple threes every ten games. He had some open looks tonight that could have turned the game.
Marshall–Good Decision Making. I really like his game. I agree with THF—we shall see.
Bullock–He is an x-factor that I have more confidence in. I think a few games this year. He is going to come in and hit every three. He does have to improve his lateral movement on defense, and lower his center of gravity against quicker players, though. Fortunately for him, lateral movement is really easy to fix, with consistent effort in practice.
In the couple of times I’ve seen Knox, I can tell you I’m a fan. I wish he would watch the fouls especially if Zeller and Henson are in foul trouble, but he’s very physical and not too many guys are going to push him around. Having Knox last year would have been a HUGE benefit.
I agree that Drew should be on the “hot seat.” I also think that he took a lot of unncessary crap for what happened last year, but Marshall looks like a better option if there are nights like this when Barnes and Strickland aren’t able to produce. I’m not advocating for Larry to “go away” or only get 5 minutes a game, but Larry’s a different type of PG that doesn’t have the outside shot that we’re going to need to stay in ugly games like this.
The good news is it’s getting more and more obvious that KM has what it takes to become a real difference maker on the court. Given more gametime experience with his teammates (so he can learn their tendencies and they can learn his) he could become an incredibly good player. The bad news is Roy probably won’t let that happen until next year. The balanced news is, if Barnes keeps struggling, he’ll be back next year (and maybe we’ll finally get to see what it looks like for him and KM, and Bullock to all be on the court at the same time).
In the mean time, over in Raleigh, their coach doesn’t hesitate to put all three of his talented freshmen on the court at the same time and they are probably going to turn into a pretty good team this year.
Not long ago Seth Davis wrote that Drew still appeared as the weak link in the one practice he saw. So we know Drew is not doing any better in practice and he is not really burning up on the court. Which just makes me wonder why does he still get so much more playing time? Being a senior he obviously knows more of Roy’s playbook, but I think it is his ability to push the ball up the court at Roy’s speed. So if Roy stays irretrievably devoted to his fast game, prepare to see more of Drew and less of Kendall. Drew can just push the ball, after that he is probably the worst ball-handling and passing PG in Div I.
How is struggling to hit 60 points part of Roy’s fast game?
Knox, Marshall and Bullock have all been good additions and I think Barnes is going to be as well. Like Vince Carter, he may have a longer learning curve than we might like, but maybe he will stay three years as well.
If Henson makes a couple more free throws, we might have stolen a victory here, in spite of how badly we played–of course, Minnesota might claim that they won in spite of playing crummy as well.
What is the deal with the crowd support in PR? I thought basketball was fairly popular down there, given PR’s generally good results in international basketball.
Williams has a fundamental pressure to deliver wins. Period. If the senior players at certain positions are not performing, he will eventually seat them.
Because he wants to keep his job. Oh, he also wants the program to succeed.
The question is how quickly he makes more fundamental changes.
I wonder what the stats are on minutes for new players this year versus historical averages.
Obviously, someone has to be on the floor. Set Barnes aside if you will. How about Knox and the freshmen?
If they cannot improve free throws, there will be plenty of sad losses.
Opposing coaches are not stupid. Many carry a burning desire to beat UNC based on history. So fouling the bleep out of players who cannot score FTs will be really costly. Give up 6-10 points a game and lose.
Drew II is a junior. There are no scholarship seniors on this team except for Knox. Regardless, he doesn’t have what it takes to lead a successful team. I wish it were otherwise, but it’s just so obvious after watching Marshall play that LD II doesn’t have the “it” factor. And it’s not just his decision-making; I think it’s his overall level of aggressiveness. Still, I’m pretty excited about this team.
The Heels have only one “senior” on this team, and that guy is a graduate student.
Next up…the team which last year’s team embarrassed themselves against in a private scrimmage, Vanderbilt.
“If Henson makes a couple more free throws, we might have stolen a victory here”
Good point, william. Folks will focus the 60% team number, but if you take out Henson’s 1-6, the rest of the team actually shot a respectable 14-19 (74%). I think one of the ways the team can mitigate the “Henson effect” is for the rest of then, especially Barnes and Bullock, to be more aggressive with their drives to the basket.
The bigger problems last night were the facts that UNC had an eFG% of 40% and UM had a FTrate of 56.4%. This is obvious, but you can’t win games like that.
Last night’s game sort of reminded me of the Gonzaga game from the 2006-2007 season, as that was another game where UNC couldn’t throw it in the ocean (eFG%: 40.1), despite great shooting in the preceding games. That game lead to two significant changes: one immediate (no more headbands) and one that took place 2 games later (Ty Lawson as starter). Will be curious to see if that happens again.
“Opposing coaches are not stupid. Many carry a burning desire to beat UNC based on history. So fouling the bleep out of players who cannot score FTs will be really costly. Give up 6-10 points a game and lose.”
I can’t agree more…I’m prepared to see K later on in the season throw kids in games that wouldn’t have a prayer on seeing any playing time once conference play begins to employ “Hack-a-Henson” to get a win. The Tomato (Sidney Lowe) is capable of such things as well.
Of course, I couldn’t say I wouldn’t do the same. If it comes down to it, you have to exploit your opponent’s weaknesses, and Henson at the stripe is one of them.
Not to mention LD has shown time and time again that he will give up the ball even if someone breathes on him. This team has scorers, but they need the ball when they are in position to score, so unless we switch overnight to Princeton offense this team needs a PG who can create plays. Larry Drew is not that person. Hell, I doubt whether he even belongs to Div I.
scl11,
I saw in last night’s game thread you asked about any postseason AA’s going 0-13 from the field. A quick, and non-comprehensive check of the last two season’s show’s no “0-13′s,” but plenty of ugly shooting nights:
Turner: 2-13
Reynolds: 2-15
Collins: 1-12
Scheyer: 1-11
Pullen: 2-15 (2x)
Curry: 5-26
Harden: 0-8
Teague: 1-10
Lawson: 3-15
If I had to guess, if you study the entire history of the award then you would find at least one player who had an 0-10+ game during their AA-season.
CB74 showing up with the princeton offense and scoring 50pts/game again. It’s obvious when barnes is off we have no scoring threat in our starting lineup (given Strickland’s timid play). I’m all for Marshall starting now, especially after his quotes after this particular game: “We WILL have a good practice tomorrow, and we WILL respond on Sunday.”
I’m concerned about Barnes. He has had 2 bad games out of 4 (including exhibition). He needs to look at some tapes of Wayne last year when he was in a slump. Wayne was crashing the boards, playing good defense, getting to ft line all in an attempt to get in a rhythm instead of forcing up tough jumpers which Barnes appears to be doing.
Basically, the impression I got is that we’re bad at the line (duh), Larry isn’t willing to penetrate or quicken the pace by pushing the ball up the floor, and the biggie: WE AREN’T TOUGH ENOUGH. We didn’t get any of the tough traffic rebounds, we weren’t looking to dunk on people, and we didn’t aggressively challenge any of their guys at the rim (or in hoffarber’s case, make him put it on the deck).
To touch on LD11 vs Marshall quickly.
Kendall has no fear and looks like he belongs out there. He’s always looking up the floor and he is, especially against Minn, attacking the basket and making things happen. Many times it has looked as though the receiver of his creative passes aren’t prepared, with time our interior players will start to understand that pretty much no matter where Kendall is and how the defense is playing, he can find them and they’ll be ready.
The thing that is alarming to me about Barnes has nothing to do with his 0fer night. Part of the reason that Barnes was rated as highly as he was, was his play making ability. He has 2 assists in every game so far. Every time he drives or looks for his own shot, its a 1 on 1 situation. I want to see him making plays other than looking for his own shot. To his credit he has done a decent job on the offensive glass, but with all of us continuing to call out our starting point guard, Barnes needs to take over more of the play making duties.
After the previous night’s showing against Hofstra Barnes was heavily guarded. He did not get any open perimeter shots.
Part of being a PG is not just passing and taking the ball up the court, but scoring too. Here LD has shown that aside from taking the ball up the court and then getting trapped, he cannot pass or score and hit open jumpers. Marshall still takes the open shot when he has it.
This team’s problem is on the perimeter. We have two legit perimeter players, Barnes and Bullock and yet Bullock never gets to see playing time. So it’s not just one player having a bad night, but bad player management by the coach too. We need the best players on the starting line-up and from what I have seen Barnes, Marshall, Henson and Zeller are our top players. I would also argue that if the coach does not want to start Bullock he should at least consider giving him significantly more minutes, he wasn’t ranked among the top 15 in his recruiting class for nothing.
The season before cnference play is when new lineups are tried.
We are in that period now.
Hopefully the current coaching staff realize that if they don’t get back on a successful track that patience is not infinite.
So I am sure they are having plenty of heated discussions on all of these topics.
I just hope something positive happens.
Thanks CM, well that is a slight glimmer of hope in an otherwise crappy weekend.
Key Point here is Carolina Stunk it Up and still could have won the game if they made a couple free throws and grabbed a couple more defensive boards. Again I’ve said from the first game those are the 2 areas that this team has to drastically improve; otherwise, they will never win a game when they shoot below 45%.
LDII has been lousy, and as much as the pressure appears to be building on Barnes shoulders, I think it is equally getting as heavy on Drew’s shoulders and it should. Get tough stop going east and west, start going north and south and playing like a man or sit your ****** on the bench. Now as awful as Drew was last night, Marshall wasn’t setting the world on fire, and LDII still made two of the most critical plays in the run that cut the lead to 3 @ 62-59 (driving layup and the rebound and assist to Zeller). Instead of just dumping on Drew, I think the performance level at the PG position in general (both LDII and KM) needs to drastically improve. Whether this season is good or great depends on what LDII does from this point forward, even if KM supplants him in the starting lineup at some point, Carolina still needs a very good LDII to have a successful season.
Was very impressed with Strickland last night, he is definitely the best perimeter defender by far, and did not understand why he was not on the court with Bullock in the final 5 minutes.
As for Barnes, the kid is going to be great at some point, but evidently he doesn’t walk on water and turn water into wine just yet. 0-12 from a guy who is supposed to be the top pick in the draft is just hard to fathom, if Barnes just hits one shot Carolina might have won that game, just hard to believe. Maybe his arms are tired from all the extra shooting after games that we’ve seen countless articles about.
This team will be fine, again as I said last night, it is not the same garbage team that we saw last year, and it is still a marathon not a sprint.
Hey, if SC1 is positive, there is hope yet….
Well, of course the Heels lay an egg against my current home state team. Won’t hear the end of this for a few weeks…
Minny is a solid club. Frustrating to watch this one, though. Reminded me way too much of last year. Poor decision making, passive play, poor shooting, etc., etc.
Match-ups made this a tough game up front. Terry played hard, but he, and to an extent Henson, we simply overmatched up front by Mbakwe, Iverson, Sampson III, etc.
LDII, IMO, was horrible. I thought he was worse than his stat line, especially against the zone. He never attacked the gaps except for the one lay-up late, and as the PG he needed to make sure Zeller got a touch on at least ONE of the final five possessions. He’s a non-threat offensively, and even making a simple reverse pass he’s often off-target. Roy needs to admit his mistake and sit the kid. He’s just not up to snuff. He couldn’t even contain Al Nolen, making what is really a back-up look like he was All-Big 10.
And don’t get me started on Hoffarber. All the kid can do is shoot, and we couldn’t stop that. I mean, he’s not going to drive around you, GET UP IN HIS FACE!!!!
Finally, don’t count me among those worried about Harrison. He’ll be fine. Many of those looks were quality shots, and they’ll go in more often than not. I didn’t feel like he forced too much, and he’s just a freshman and trying to figure out spots when to take over, and there’s no reason for him to defer to anyone. I’d rather have him take a mediocre shot over anyone else taking a shot.