I really do not have any decent suggest or answers. I do know it is not in my nature to panic or be otherwise reactionary about the state of a young team at this junction in an equally young season. Sure there are some fairly pressing concerns with this team but I honestly do not see the point of writing this team off now or dwelling too much on last season. Let’s leave 2010 where it is and focus on the hand that has been dealt. It also should be noted that Roy Williams said he is not discouraged. He is also done allowing players to play just because. John Henson and Dexter Strickland both had their playing time affected versus Vanderbilt because their play was not making the grade. For all those people wondering about personnel decisions and believe Roy is going to keep playing the same guys over and over might want to take note of that.
Probably the biggest concern coming out of this one is the offensive execution and the turnovers. UNC did not shoot the ball well but also did not appear to run the offense particularly well at times hence the turnovers. I did not count these but the number of times players miscommunicated on a pass struck me as a tad high. This resulted in balls sailing out of bounds or into the hands of a defender. Even when the ball was not turned over, there seemed to be issues not catching passes cleanly throwing the whole flow of the offense out of whack. UNC apparently does not have any one player who can effectively create offense on his own. I had hoped that either Harrison Barnes or Dexter Strickland could do that but it has not happened much to this point. That means the offense needs to be executed and right now it is coming up short. The question is can it be fixed? Possibly. I am still working under the assumption that as the team develops, the offense will get crisper. I also think there are enough capable shooters to address the shooting woes. If you get those two in combination the ship should right with relative ease. Of course the best way to accomplish some form of team cohesion on offense is to get everyone fitted into certain roles on a consistent rotation. It is not all of that however. This team has capable players who can produce on offense but somehow it is not being maximized. Some credit goes to the other team for playing great defense and blame on UNC for not adjusting to that. Once again we are dealing with a young and newly formed team for all intents and purposes. Some of this will take time.
As for Harrison Barnes, I don’t have any idea. He was not bad in this one but there is a feeling that his production should be a tad higher. In light of some other freshmen around the country posting quality performances, questioning what is wrong with Barnes is not out of line. Is the general offensive malaise hampering Barnes that much? Are defense simply keyed on him? Is his learning/adjustment curve in Roy’s system more so than it is for others? I really don’t know but if Barnes can somehow get rolling it could serve as a relief valve. I just don’t see that many experts being wrong but after four games it is a little dumbfounding Barnes has had basically one good half in four games.
The Heels get UNC-Asheville in two days. The best medicine for this team is to play a good game, see the ball go into the basket from all over and find some confidence. The last thing you want is for this to spiral out of control like it did last season so getting some easy wins would be very helpful.
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There is no offensive flow yet and the most intense player is Knox. I think Zeller will get better, but he needs to keep the ball away from his feet.
I want to see the freshmen improve and play more. However, this cannot happen too fast as poor results will give them Strickland syndrome. So that will take more time.
These losses were not egregious. The whole team did not give up. There is a lot of pressure on all of them.
I really would like to know what the coaching staff really thinks about what is happening. They are the ones who have the real picture. Maybe Williams will put it in his next book. I just hope he doesn’t have a lot of free time coming up to write it.
Believe it or not, I still think we are better off then we would be at this point with the Wears and Will Graves.
I think we all thought that Barnes was going to raise us a bit more than he has so far. I don’t think anyone expected LeBron James, and maybe not even Kevin Durant. I did expect at least a player of the quality of John Walls.
I am just sort of shocked by the lack of offensive skills that I have seen by Barnes so far. He did make a nice pass underneath for an assist in the first half, but in general, he seems unable to create his own shot (which makes him fit in with the rest of the team), and he seems to be surprisingly lacking in physical skills, getting his shot blocked regularly inside. I don’t get it. I am not a recruiting guru type. I wait for them to get here, but please, somebody tell me something positive that you have seen, where maybe he jumped over two guys in high school and made change off the backboard or something. Somebody?
Valid points William and I’d like to see some evidence of this as well. There were a couple of one-on-one isolations involving Barnes tonight where I thought he would just take his defender to the rack and score on him. It just didn’t take place. Im trying to convince myself to not look to deep into this, but it seems as if they are more concerned about other aspects of the game rather than just showing off their skill set.
Maybe we could just take one game, throw away the chalkboard, and tell the kids just to play like they would in their backyard, and see if they don’t have more swagger and confidence. Sure, there may be some errant play, but we already have that anyway.
While I do believe you have to design what is best to get a win, I’d rather see exciting basketball in a loss, than poorly executed designs that falter in a loss. I’d like to see the freshmen have more time due to the fact they are more pleasing to see.
Clearly the media now is very ready to exaggerate player quality for attention. Only a handful of high school players have come in and led from the start at a major program. UNC players have rarely done that in the past. Jordan, Worthy and others maybe could have, but were held back a bit.
Hansbrough did amazing things from the start of course. But the other guys in his freshman class took their time developing. So there is still time.
Just no more stories about players working out after games. Unless it is Henson breaking the Guinness Book of records for consecutive FTs. Just so we are factual: 5,221 by Ted St. Martin, the Guinness world record holder. He did this on April 28, 1996.
For as long as I can remember, I have taken great pride in the quality of characters UNC has been able to consistently recruit. That said, as stated above by william, why is Harrison Barnes, who was not top 10, not top 5, but the NUMBER ONE recruit by many experts not dunking all over people? I hate the John Wall, DeMarcus Cousins types. If a UNC rookie came out in his home opener doing the dougie before he had played one game, I’d be ashamed. Being from Chicago, I love the fact that Derrick Rose has more talent than John Wall and three times a better head. But for the love of God we need some friggin’ attitude or something.
Why is Harrison Barnes getting swatted? It wasn’t like it was a weak side block where Barnes was out of control and just got unlucky- the play in the first half was 1 on 1, man on man, and “the #1 pick in 2011 NBA Draft” got re-freaking-jected. Who on this team makes you fly out of your chair screaming, “Ohhh MY! What a BEAST!” No one (and no, Henson’s volleyball spikes don’t count because the instant someone touches him he loses the ball and is incapable of making a bucket with contact or making the team/player pay for the foul by completing anything close to a normal looking foul shot.)
I am somewhat going against my own basketball opinion here because when the rubber meets the road, I don’t want athletes, I want basketball players but we have little resembling a basketball player who makes successful plays other than Tyler Zeller and that’s only on offense 47% of the time.
THF- I give you credit in your assessment of tonight’s game on this team so far. I am unable to simply forget about last season 1. Because it still freaking stings and 2. Because our roster is made up of a lot of the same players. I could sit here until I’m Blue Devil in the face and tell you we don’t do this well or we don’t do that well. The fact is this is not a good basketball team. They weren’t a good basketball team last year and they’re not a good basketball team today.
The shooting is going to be average at best all season, we simply don’t have a lot of good shooters on this team. So in order for this squad to start consistently competing in basketball games is it needs to play balls to the walls for 40 minutes every night. It’s not that God doesn’t like us and he just wants to see random guard after random guard go off against us, or see undersized average big men DOMINATE the interior game after game, it’s that all of that continues to happen and no one really seems to mind. Besides maybe the head coach who doesn’t seem to do much to change it.
Sorry, this one really pissed me off.
Beyond the free throws, it seems that Roy was not happy with Henson’s performance. Henson got a meager 16 minutes. His rebounding totals were good, but the rest of his line was not.
Look at Texas and Florida in football this year. This is not an exact science, recruiting that is, but I don’t think any program could sustain the losses UNC has, when the guys filling them are not playing up to their recruiting rankings.
So far, over the last two years, among UNC players ranked in the top 50, (and yes, it is very early this year) only Reggie Bullock has performed somewhat close to his billing. Henson and Barnes certainly were below expectations during their first four games in 2009 and 2010. Marshall hasn’t played enough yet to say much, and Barnes is still a freshman, but Henson has been a major disappointment, which surprises me after the way he finished up last year.
Recruiting can be hit or miss. No one expected Tyler Hansbrough to have the impact he ended up having, while Josh McRoberts was considered a bust. Kenny Smith ended up smoking Pearl Washington. Michael Jordan smoked Adrian Branch, but Washington and Branch both ended up being very good college players.
Unfortunately, UNC needed Henson and Barnes to be as good as advertised from the get-go. Probably C. Michael will go back (I hope) and tell us that Hansbrough was horrible early back in 2006 and we have all just forgotten, but I doubt it.
The guys all had six months to work on improvement, after the slight blip up in the NIT and so far, I don’t see much. Strickland might be the most improved, as he is playing more under control and his defense seems more solid in some ways. Drew seems no better. Henson seems no better. Zeller seems the same, but no stronger down low, where he loses the ball regularly. Add to this stagnation, Barnes’ underwhelming beginning and it is hard to be sanguine. If I were Roy, I would look for (or instruct) Barnes to attempt a windmill dunk or something to impress. That blocked dunk tonight was thoroughly demoralizing.
i do think that overall we have way more athleticism than last year. the loss of Graves, Ginyard and Thompson and the addition of the freshman could only help us on that front. We ain’t the most athletic in the country, but the raw ability is there enough so that a good team is in there. So I feel more positive than I did last year that we will see steady improvement as the season progresses.
The defensive intensity coming out in the second half was encouraging. It helped that they had Greg Paulus 2.0 as point guard, but anyways….we had an opportunity to seize the game but couldn’t put the ball in the basket.
On HB: I generally don’t pay that much attention to recruiting, but last year when I heard we were getting the #1 player in the country I googled Harrison Barnes and watched some high school highlight reels. My honest impression was “huh, doesn’t seem like a crazy great athlete….but what the heck do I know?” Sometimes my instincts don’t suck. I think Barnes still has great potential but he is obviously not going to do it like Durant did, and just blow everyone away on sheer ability. He has to learn the game first so he can pick his moments. That will take time. The comparison to Grant Hill is still the best one I’ve heard.
Nobody guarded Barnes or even really touched him in all the All Star games last year. He is adjusting to the College game. Maybe the summer experience was kind for him. I do give him credit for not shooting foolishly. I think he was surprised on the dunk. It was a stupid attempt anyway. Coming from the baseline against two defenders might work for Wilt Chamberlain. He is not that sort of player.
It would be nice to see some athleticism. Williams was up and gesticulating lots to push the ball upcourt. They did score lots of points that way. So there are some positives.
I can tell everyone is depressed, with reason, so even though this is a basketball thread, we can all be happy for Darian Durant who took his team to the Grey Cup finals up in Canada.
http://www.nationalpost.com/sports/Roughriders+Grey+rematch/3863361/story.html
UNC’s Williams on Henson’s 16 mins: “You’ve got to deserve to play. You can’t just go out there … [and] have 0 assts and 6 TOs you can’t have 1 assist, 4 TOs. You cannot hurt your team.”
Essentially said the same thing about Strickland.
Henson said this postgame:
“I wasn’t aggressive, and I wasn’t going as hard as I should have. That’s all me.”
A couple other things that stuck in my head:
With about a minute left, Vandy is shooting free-throws. They miss the second one but Barnes doesn’t put any effort into the block out, he gets pushed under the basket, and Vandy gets the board. Then, when a Vandy player drives to the hole Barnes is totally out of position on help defense. Where he was standing made absolutely no sense, as even his own man was inside him. Pretty shocking sequence from the guy who needs to be our leader, whether its fair to ask that of a freshman or not.
On the glass half full side, Marshall’s ability to make pinpoint accurate long downcourt passes on the break is incredible. He would have had way more assists if his teammates would have finished at the rim.
OK, rant over. Here’s what I constructively want to see.
1. Harrison Barnes and Tyler Zeller living at the charity stripe.
2. John Henson doing what John Henson does, aggressive defense, weak side shot blocking, defensive rebounding.
3. Leslie McDonald to play a little more. I know, sometimes he looks like he’s completely lost. But dating back to last season he was always the one guy who seemed to truly go all out and have the least amount of fear and a kinda-sorta wanting to be aggressive on offense. He is a decent shooter, if he could hover around averaging 40% from 3 this year that would greatly help us. He is a very good on the ball defender so putting him on (fill in the blank) guard who is killing us (fill in the blank game) wouldn’t hurt.
4. Kendall Marshall to start. Dexter Strickland to back him up. I love the idea of Reggie Bullock at the 2. He is athletic and quick enough to guard opposing wings and he can be a real match-up nightmare for undersized 2guards to guard. We are sitting here screaming for some consistent outside shooting, wasn’t that Bullock’s billing from the start?
5. Justin Knox to play in the high post. Smart player, good interior passer. Career 72% from the FT line so not a bad guy to have the ball going to the basket. Knox and Zeller could be a dangerous duo playing a 2 man game down low.
Please guys, let’s pull this together. At least try and replicate the first 8 minutes of the 2nd half into a consistent overall effort. It shouldn’t take an ****** kicking from Minnesota, 20 minutes of ****** kicking from Vandy and I’m sure several very colorful rants from your head coach to get you going. Ya’ll haven’t earned anything, including you #40.
I think Seth Davis, whom I respect, saw Barnes as being closest to Shane Battier. The thing about Battier, from what I can discern, is that he is the kind of guy who can put a team over the top, especially defensively, but Battier is not going to carry a team, the way a John Walls or Kevin Durant might. Battier had some amazing help at Duke and has played on some pretty good NBA teams.
If you want to stick with the Grant Hill comparison, I think the intellects might be comparable for the the three, but Hill was probably the most athletic of the three, but his small hands and injuries robbed his pro career of what it might have been.
At this point, Battier seems a much better comparison than any of the big scorers or high-flyers like Grant Hill.
^I’ve heard many “experts” say Kobe. Before people start laughing up a storm I will objectively say that all the basketball talent aside, Kobe Bryant has a killer instinct that few athletes possess. Harrison Barnes needs to develop 8% of that. Is there any doubt that if Kobe Bryant went to college, again basketball aside, whoever he played for would have been HIS team.
Does anyone feel as though HBJB has done anything or shown anything publicly that this is HIS basketball team?
8486: I concur with all of your points except #3. I like McDonald because of his Danny Green-like aggressiveness on offense, however he is not Danny Green-like in terms of talent. Maybe it was the way the game was being called, but besides the intentional foul he drew, he was terrible on defense. It seemed like he was being called for fouls all the time. Also, if he’s not making shots, he’s basically another Ginyard for us.
Gottlieb at halftime was making the interesting (and correct i believe) point that Barnes isn’t a killer. We need someone else to help him finish close games. Zeller and Bullock seem to fit that mold. I don’t understand why Bullock doesn’t play more. He should be getting all of McDonald’s pt. And Watts has to be removed from the rotation. Maybe bring Henson off bench as defensive energy.
I don’t want to sound like a football coach, but we really do need to become a lot tougher and aggressive. If you’re going to foul, FOUL. And if you’re going to slap the backboard on layups, you might as well dunk the ball. Fight through screens, or trap on-ball screens. We need to do something to force tempo and give our team easier looks b/c right now we can’t seem to run any effective half-court offense.
David Thompson was the most gifted basketball athlete I have ever seen. Other players like Michael Jordan wanted to win so much that they just did whatever it took and had the talent and confidence to back it up.
So Barnes does have a long way to go. It is way too early to see if he has the skills. Passion is starting to declare itself. Maybe he should look at a video of Burleson and Thompson taking down Maryland in the final of the 1974 ACC tournament double overtime.
I was there. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nJpPGBa-Ic
TarHeel8586 –
“I am unable to simply forget about last season 1. Because it still freaking stings and 2. Because our roster is made up of a lot of the same players. I could sit here until I’m Blue Devil in the face and tell you we don’t do this well or we don’t do that well. The fact is this is not a good basketball team. They weren’t a good basketball team last year and they’re not a good basketball team today.”
Bingo.
It is simply not possible to look past the hype-followed-by-disaster slow torture of last year while we see what certainly looks like the same thing unfolding before us now. The phrase “it’s still early” is beginning to assume the same narcotic quality that similar (although not identical) lulling phrases had after the CoC game last season.
This team is in trouble. Henson was a top five recruit and Barnes was No. 1. Is that what we’re seeing?
I don’t recall a single person on the board saying a month ago that a start like this was even a fair possibility. I think we’re all somewhere between very disappointed and shocked. If this continues for much longer at all, questions inevitably will be raised about whether Roy remains what he has been.
It has been more than a season since we’ve seen real Carolina basketball. We’re losing to average teams for whom the season is just as new as it is for us. It may be too early for panic, but it is decidedly not too early for deep concern.
William I will grant you that Grant Hill is more athletic than HB. I can’t see HB pulling off the famous top-of-the-backboard alley oop.
But these are Battier’s freshman stats: 25 mins, 7.6 pts, 6 rebs, 16% 3-point shooting. That ’98 Duke team was more stacked than our current UNC team, so Battier didn’t have to be an offensive weapon. But you still gotta say that HB has a more developed shot and all around offensive game than Battier as a freshman, although he developed that later in his college career. At least HB will shoot better than 16% from 3 (or I don’t want to know what our final record will look like). The real question is what is HB’s ceiling? Is he close to it or is there room to grow?
I think Pomeroy had us losing 8 games and that was with us winning this tournament, and I sort of felt that we were being disrespected by Ken.
It is hard to actually remember UNC having 2 disappointing years in a row outside of the Doherty years, perhaps. Maybe Guthridge would have had 2 such years, had he not snuck into the Final Four his final year. Smith had a couple of disappointing years for him, not for anyone else, back in 1979 and 1980, and in 1989 and 1990, but he made the tournament all those years.
This year may end up being like K’s year back after the bad back in 1996 where they made the tourney, but probably didn’t deserve to, winning under 20 games. At this point, given the lack of shooting and scoring, I think UNC will struggle to make the tournament. I had Barnes pegged as a 20 point a game guy, making 50% from the floor, 35% from three point range and 75% from the free throw line, perfunctorily. If that is not to be the case, but rather he is a 14 point scorer, making 45% from the floor and 30% from beyond the arc, we just don’t have the shooting or scoring to have a chance to compete for a national title.
First time poster. Love this site. I commend you all for your honest and spot-on analysis. I detest “homers”. I’m likewise in this state of disappointed to shocked. Barnes woeful play simply baffles me. I do think he is way better than this; all the experts couldn’t be wrong. Drew is no better. Hensen’s ceiling is obviously limited. And, on a side note, Bullock seems two or three inches shorter than advertised. Seems like he can’t be 6′ 8″. Roy has also disappointed me greatly. This mediocrity is unacceptable. My two cents on line-up changes: Start Zeller, Knox, Barnes, Bullock, and Marshall. Play McDonald more. Play Drew way less, no more than 10 or 12 minutes a game. Henson shouldn’t play more than he played tonight until he learns to hit a free throw. Give Watts a few minutes a game as a reward for effort and bring a team player, but no more than 5 minutes a game.
What little I have seen of Harrison Barnes, I have learned that he is at his best when he is handling the ball more. He is like a Brandon Roy or a Evan Turner type of player.
scl, you nailed it brother.
I’ve figured it out!
Here’s the minutes we need to see from here on out:
30 min each for Marshall, Bullock, Barnes, Knox, and Zeller
20 min for Henson
10 min each for Strickland and Drew
5 min each for McDonald and Watts
Boo ya!
This was Carolina’s perimeter stat line last year, every game:
30% from the field, 50/50 Ast/TOs, opposing guards get wherever they want whenever they want on the other side of the court.
What’s changed in that equation? Nothing. Not yet. You could see it even against Lipscomb.
“Chemistry” mandates the freshmen learn the ropes and the established guys play their way out of their starting roles. That’s going to take awhile. And until that happens, this team is will not beat anyone with experience and athleticism in the backcourt.
And yes, that was predictable when this season started. Roy’s style demands superior play on the perimeter. This team at least has the potential for it, which is more than you can say for last year.
There is no question that we have many talented players. What is lacking and what will take time to develop is a cohesive TEAM. Roles are not yet defined nor is there a group of dependable starters. As is evident this group is an ongoing work in progress and patience is required from us, the coaches and the players. At this point the best we can hope for is a more rapid developement by the freshmen who will be the deciding factor in how well this team will perform in the ACC season and beyond. A comparison now to last year’s team is absurd!
Go Heels!!
Again, until this team can rebound the ball defensively and make free throws they will not win a game where they shoot below 45%.
As disappointed as I am at what I’ve seen from Barnes on the offensive end to this point, my bigger disappointment is that he is not a better rebounder for his 6’8″ frame. Barnes is going to be a very good player at some point (hopefully this season), but I’m most bothered by the comments in the preseason that said Barnes didn’t need to have the ball to be a positive impact on the game, which to this point is total BS. To date in college, Barnes is nothing more than a jump shooting 6’8″ wing that when his shot is not falling does not have the explosiveness, strength, and quickness to be a dynamic player on the offensive end. I could live with that if he actually did the other little things like rebound, move without the ball, or played defense without fouling that would help his team win basketball games. Currently Barnes is trying to be the 6’8″ version of Wayne Ellington during his freshman year, when Carolina needs him to be Jerry Stackhouse during his freshman year. So if Barnes wants to continue being a shooting guard, maybe another Kinston native should be the freshman that garners the majority of the minutes.
Now let’s talk about this team as a whole:
First this team is no where near the garbage we saw last season, but they lack five major things imhop that keeps them from being a good (or at least above average) basketball team:
1) Big Time Rebounder, this is the worse defensive rebounding team that I’ve seen in Chapel Hill in a long time. I thought either Henson or Knox would be glass eaters, especially on the defensive end, but Henson seems more eager to be out of position trying to block shots and Knox has be just as bad on some of his box outs. If Barnes wants to do more things to help his team win, he can start by grabbing some defensive rebounds. Watts playing the 4 is a major problem here, at least I think Roy is starting to realize that. This team is actually not bad defensively (besides the normal UNC way of leaving wide open 3 point shooters), but they are not being rewarded because they can’t grab a damn rebound.
2) Poor Spacing on offense, the spacing on offense is atrocious. If you can hand the ball to a teammate, then you are doing a piss poor job of running the offense. Also, Carolina post players are awful passing out of double teams in the post, and Zeller and Henson still have trouble catching the ball in traffic.
3) Free Throw Shooting, Henson can’t play if he is that awful from the free throw line. To many empty possessions because Carolina can not capitalize at the free throw line.
4) Too many jump shooters and not enough tough basketball players. Stop settling for jump shots and take the ball to the basket and make the defense guard you. Stop flipping passes over your shoulder to Zeller Mr. Strickland, take it strong and try to dunk on somebody. Stop settling for jump shots Mr. Barnes and Mr. Bullock, and start taking the ball to the rack like men.
5) Losers Mentality. When things go bad this team drops their heads and do the “poor me” routine. LDII is the worse front runner of them all, stop the f&cking sulking and start getting after it and being more aggressive. No one is going to hand you anything, get off your ****** and go take it.
“Probably C. Michael will go back (I hope) and tell us that Hansbrough was horrible early back in 2006 and we have all just forgotten, but I doubt it.”
No such luck. Hansbrough averaged a little under 18 ppg his first four games. He then laid an egg against UK (6 points), but that was the last time he was under double figures the entire year. But if Barnes’ 0-12 is his only terrible (sub-double digit) game of the season, then there is still time for him to put Jamison/Hansbrough/McCants type freshman numbers.
^Only if he stops being a jump shooter and becomes a better rebounder both offensively and defensively.
If you compare this season’s nonconference schedule with the 2005-06 preseason schedule, you will notice that this year’s is more ambitious. I can forgive the Minnesota loss. Here is the reason why. Last year Minnesota was playing for half of the season without Al Nolen. Nolen is a great perimeter defender. So far this season, he has continued his defensive play averaging 2.4 steals a game. Minnesota is also now playing with Trevor Mbakwe. He was forced to sit out last season due to legal issues. Both of these players continued their great play in the championship game against West Virginia. I think Minnesota will sneak into the upper echelon of the Big Ten. Now, the Vanderbilt game is another story. They lose AJ Ogilvy which is essentially addition by subtraction. Ogilvy was a top rated rated his freshman year, but he seemed to spiral downward since. The loss of Jermaine Beal should have hurt them more, but it appears that Tinsley has taken up the role as distributor and last year. Last year’s freshman phenom Jeffery Taylor has been electric so far this year. Another super sophomore John Jenkins has been good as well. With all of this being said, while both of them are good three point shooters. neither torched UNC. The issue has been offense. Henson and Drew simply have not been producing at a level which is expected of them. While Strickland hasn’t been great, I would still like to see him play shooting guard. Have him split time with Bullock. Strickland is a better defender at this point, but he may be more productive if paired with Marshall. So far, Bullock looks like the best freshman. He definitely deserves more playing time. I think splitting time with Strickland is a good idea until he catches on defensively.
Great points, scl11.
In regards to LDII, the thing with him is that he certainly could be more efficient, but for a point guard he’s perhaps the worst passer among UNC point guards I can remember. Nothing on target, not delivered in a way that a guy can get off a quick shot or catch and get to the rim.
Part of me says that patience is needed to integrate all the new parts. The other part says that this group has been together since the summer, and the face that roles haven’t been determined is due to a lack of leadership from within the team outside of the coaching staff. Seriously, who is the leader of this team?
I can’t believe Henson admitted that he played at not 100 percent effort. You’re coming off a loss. Unforgivable, IMO. I would sit the kid for the next game or two just to prove a point. Every game you play is a gift, and that’s something perhaps this team needs to learn.
Also agree with those that say don’t forget last year.
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it – Santayana
I agree with scl11. Barnes needs to be more aggressive taking the ball to the hoops. Only good things can happen when he does that. I watched a high school game where he was getting triple team and he was simply willing his way through traffic into the paint. We haven’t seen that guy so far this year.
Henson should never touch the ball more than 2 feet from the hoop. He seems like a good kid, but is the most offensively unpolished highly recruited big man I have ever seen. I am on the wrong side of six feet and 170 lbs and feel confident I could push Henson off the low block. Barnes will be fine. If someone else on the team shows any offensive ability it will free him up.
Bottom line on both of these games is UNC was sleepwalking through most of them. Except for about 8 mins to start second half of Vandy they looked listless and uninterested. The whole point of a ten man rotation is to bring it for 40 mins. They all seem to be afraid to make a mistake, but yet make tons of them. This team has talent, but where is the passion and effort?
“So far, Bullock looks like the best freshman.”
Agree, 15min is not enough, but the minutes shouldn’t just come from Strickland, especially on nights when the second coming is making only 1 of 3 FG attempts and only grabbing 4 boards in 29min.
To date:
Peforming as expected: Zeller, Bullock, Marshall, Strickland, & Knox
Performing better than expected: NONE
Playing below expectations: LDII & McDonald
Playing well below expectations: Barnes & Henson
Was a good idea while it lasted: Watts @ the 4
“If you compare this season’s nonconference schedule with the 2005-06 preseason schedule, you will notice that this year’s is more ambitious.”
Yup. Just looking at the kenpom rankings, in 2006 UNC had 3 non-con games against teams in the top 40; this year’s team has 5. On the other hand, the ACC schedule does not appear to as daunting this year as it was in 2006, or even last year. Interestingly enough, despite the two losses, kenpom as actually increased UNC projected record from 19-11 (9-7) to start the season, to 20-10 (10-6).
As for Bullock/Strickland, I’d like to see what happens if you played them at the same time, with Barnes at the 4 and Z at the 5. You get more shooting that way and force Barnes to be more aggressive in the interior.
@scl1 – Good point on Watts. I think we can only use him sparingly @ the 4 in certain situations or where foul trouble is an issue. I think he plays hard and aggressive so I’d like to get him on the court, but his size really limits him at the 4.
On the Barnes discussion, I think he’s still finding his way and adjusting to being the primary focus of the opposing defense at the college level. Not a lot of defense played in AAU, and the competition he faced in Iowa just wasn’t that good. I think re-reading this post may give us insight into what HB can give us and what we should expect.
http://thepaintedarea.blogspot.com/2010/04/nike-hoop-summit-report-how-good-is.html
have Marshall and Barnes played together yet??
ok, that was easily the worst UNC weekend in which dook didnt win anything meaningful. the football team put a giant RED bow on a comeback that we half-engineered FOR them.
and the basketball team literally is giving me nightmares. in November.
John Henson actually RAISED his FT% by going 2/6. i want to say he changed his form, and that his misses were misses only short or long, not left, right, diagonally. i think, think, it might mean improvement.
i’m not in favor of killing Strickland’s minutes. he was the only one i saw out there really playing hard D, getting steals and hands on the ball.
i saw Marshall back into the lane once, keeping his dribble, looking around. no WAY can Drew make that play, am i right? not that it means everything, but i was struck by it.
you know those commercials for acid relux or whatever it is, where the guy has a taco hitting him all over the face, fighting to get away?
thats everyone other than Marshall when they have the ball or the ball is coming at them. WHAT is the deal with that? its like the ball is hot or electrified or oblong. i have never seen two Carolina teams fight the basketball like these last two.
i, too, would like to see Bullock play more, although he has gotten burned many many times, playing poor D.
i counted 3 0″ shots missed. RIP THE RIM OFF, DEON. you heard me.
i’m not going to go into how concerned i am any more than that right now, but i have decided, for my own health, i need NEW VIEWING RULES:
***
if the opposition gets 5 or more 3s in the 1st half, i’m going to have to turn the tv off.
if One Guy has more than 11 pts in the 1st half, i’m going to have to turn the tv off.
if we have 10+ turnovers in the 1st half, i’m going to have to turn the tv off.
if they come back and win, great. if they dont, i wont get an ulcer or kick the dog or throw the cat watching and getting frustrated as my blood boils.
The biggest shock for me was seeing a team shoot 70% from 3 on Thursday, then shoot 25% for the rest of the tournament. So basically if Carolina shot their average (43%) for the 3 games vs. wasting them all against Hofstra, UNC most likely goes 3-0 vs. 1-2. The point being is that this team was only one or two shots, defensive rebounds, or free throws away from beating two most likely NCAAT teams while basically stinking it up on the offensive end and have their star player look very average in the process. So I don’t see the sky falling quite yet.
Anyone remember the 2003 preseason NIT?
“i’m not in favor of killing Strickland’s minutes. he was the only one i saw out there really playing hard D, getting steals and hands on the ball.”
AMEN, actually outside of the bad turnovers yesterday (two that hit Zellers chest/hands) Strickland has been one of the best performers through the first 4 games.
“i, too, would like to see Bullock play more, although he has gotten burned many many times, playing poor D.”
So has Barnes and Zeller, and their minutes haven’t been cut because of those defensive lapses.
The situation with Barnes is the most enigmatic. I know what I saw in the summer league – it wasn’t an illusion. The guy dominated the summer leagues in a way that no UNC recruit since Jerry Stackhouse has. Roy has got to find a way to unlock all the potential that guy has, because that potential is real not imagined.
“i want to say he changed his form, and that his misses were misses only short or long, not left, right, diagonally.”
No, you are absolutely right. What kills me about Henson and his FTs is that the last two games, he has looked absolutely prefect in swishing his first shot in each game. Form, release, rotation, trajectory… all perfect. And then it’s like he loses his depth perception, as the shots are still right on line, but nowhere near the right distance. To me, that is a classic sign that practice just starting to pay off, but many, many more hours are needed.
oh, and since the thread about Saturday is long gone…
once again, how does Hunter Furr not play? he got in on the onside kick, but whoop de doo.
100m champion! how is Merletti better to return kicks? how is risking important pass-batting-back-into-the-field-of-play DBs better?
if Furr cant catch or fumbles all the time in practice, then lets hear that. but youre telling me Furr cant get the ball to the 20 before he’s even touched? or put Boyd back there. he is a RECEIVER. and he’s just as fast as Furr. and since he isnt getting open on offense, he might as well do something.
i dont get it.
“Anyone remember the 2003 preseason NIT?”
Roy Williams does…
scl11,
I would like to make amendments to your ratings.
To date(statistical expectations per game ave.):
Performing beyond expectations: Marshall (4 pts 2 asts
and Knox (4 pts 2 rbds)
Peforming as expected: Zeller (15 pts, 7 rbds, 1 blk) , Bullock (8pts, 38% 3FG%), McDonald (6 pts, 38% 3FG%) Strickland (8 pts, 2 asts, 1 stl)
Playing below expectations: Barnes (18 pts, 6 rbds, 3 asts, 50% FG%) and Henson (14 pts, 10 rbds, 3 blks)
Playing well below expectations: Larry Drew II (11 pts, 7 asts, 1.5 stl, ast to turn ratio 3/1)
Was a good idea while it lasted: Watts @ the 4
I think Barnes is adjusting to the fact that he is not the player who the offense is run through. LD II is playing to not make a mistake. I prefer it if he made mistakes and was productive than playing scared. I was expecting jump in performance for him from last season.
LD2, you spent your second summer with dad working on your shot.
youre shooting 22%.
Faustus, We can all agree that Barnes, Henson, and Drew have all been disappointing, I guess it depends on you expectation levels as to what degree you would rank their under performances.
Good point on LDII not wanting to make a mistake, this appears to be the case with many of the other guys on offense too. No one seems to be playing with instincts or attacking in the half court set.
Maybe you are right about Barnes, who knows? Personally, I would like to see him post up more or run the high low with Zeller, but the cream usually rises to the top, even if the offense isn’t being run through you great players find a way to score and contribute. I still think Barnes major issue on the offensive end is that he is making himself too easy to guard by sitting on the perimeter, not moving without the ball, and making himself a jump shooter.
The more I watch this team, the more I notice-tangibly and intangibly- what the precise problems are:
1. Larry Drew. His passing, his shooting, his running (sic) of the offense (double sic), his attitude, his lack of effort his body language, et cetera. He is a net detriment to this team in every visible way, and likely so in the locker room and in practice, judging by the attitudes of the players on the court. Sit his ****** down, have Marshall learn the point; at least he seems to give a rip. PG is the most important position on the court, and Drew is the worst for that job for such a variety of reasons. Maybe Roy owes his dad a favor; I don’t know.
I’d be happy with a poor man’s Derrick Phelps.
1a. John Freaking Henson. Say this for Larry Drew: he’s not colossally overrated. My goodness. At least Henson doesn’t have Drew’s toxic attitude; he’s simply just not a good basketball player. He’s a great athlete who isn’t good at basketball. period.
When my 7th grade niece is a better free throw shooter…when a 6’10″ man with gumby arms regularly misses shots inside of 2 feet from the rim…when a player of his talent relies solely on his leaping ability to consist of 100% of his defense…
All are inexcusable.
_____________________________________
Barnes and the rest of the freshmen will be fine. I really, really like Knox, his game, and his attitude. I wish we had him for longer.
I’ve got no beefs with Zeller, tho he needs to toughen up on defense.
That this team generally seems to have no fight, heart, or toughness is at the core of their problems. I can’t fix that, or commend a solution. Then again, I don’t get paid to.
scl11,
I agree with you on how Barnes should be playing. Does anyone remember what position Durant player at Texas? He pretty much played power forward because Texas went with a smaller lineup with Durant and James in the frontcourt.
On the court, this team essentially plays 4 on 5 right now, because no one on this team has the ability to deliver a complete game from the PG position yet. Same problem as last year.
The Kobe Comparisons: Kobe was an offense-killer and a coach-killer before he became a killer. People forget that. Not saying he was a bad kid, just one who’s end-game talent and experience was forged through several years of “cover-your-eyes-awful” post-season moments.
The twitter flap convinced me that a significant chunk of this team has an entitlement issue. I wonder how much fun some of these guys are to play with, which is not an insignificant issue in a bubble like UNC basketball. Barnes, Bullock and Marshall have a chance to set a tone and take the locker room in a different direction, and hopefully we’ll see that over the course of a season. If they spend all year deferring to certain personalities, it’s going to be a long year. I suspect the coaches understand that, and those changes actually become easier to make with some early season failures as justification/motivation. Call it a silver lining.
But last year’s team had an amazingly fragile psyche and just totally lost confidence. So as far as I am concerned, this year comes down to the emotional fortitude of Barnes, Bullock, and Marshall.
a significant chunk of this team has an entitlement issue
bang-on.
^^ & ^…which is exactly what I was referring to last night about identity. Does anyone think for a moment that K doesn’t deal with the same mentality with the newcomers? Yet he somehow manages to get them to all play with an identity…which is for them, that they squeeze every ounce of effort that they have, regardless of ability. That has been their signature most every season. It’s one thing to repeat the old chestnut: “when you put on the Carolina/Duke jersey…”, it’s quite another to play to those expectations. Each Coach has to use whatever works for him, but I find it interesting that you rarely see K cajole his players to play harder. By contrast all we seem to hear from Roy, is “I’ve got to get them to play harder”, and a conspicuous court-side pleading/cajoling. Having said that, it is a huge help to the HC to have one leader–again, I think that leader is going to be Marshall, based on what I’ve seen so far.
did anyone notice the 5 minute stretch in which LD played with intensity to start the 2nd half? played tough d, forced a turnover and was disruptive…made an aggressive backdoor cut, didn’t get it, curled around to the wing LOOKING for his shot, took it without hesitation and knocked it down. that, to me, begs the question of where the heck is that all game long? if you want to play, then put it all out there. this team isn’t good enough to all play 85% hoping a possession ends up in an easy layup. physical and technical talent wise, Kendall and Larry could be a wash, but kendall plays like a winner, so i think he needs the green light to start from here on out. Tell Larry to be a scoring PG off the bench to give us an outside lift.
Hopefully the Leslie McDonald experiment is over, not to take away from the things i do like about him, but my goodness, we need Reggie bad.
I agree with the comments about Dexter, he has shown defensive intensity and has dunked on people twice (once was a putback, i think the play had been whistled dead). I don’t want to view this as reggie versus Dexter, b/c i like them both. but we can’t possibly think it’s b/c of defensive lapses alone. there was one play last night, an under the basket inbounds, where they threw it to the baseline, then to the wing, who then passed it diagonally through the paint to a guy for a dunk. WTF, that’s bad defense everywhere….so put in a guy who is our top long range gun for significant minutes.
Kendall and Reggie bring attitude and toughness, which is one of the many keys….moving them into more prominent places in the rotation will stop the complete ineptitude and on offense where everyone tossees it around a bit and then Z shoots a hook. someone has to want to score and both kendall and reggie seem like guys who want to push the envelope and create shots.
HB, man, i think the perfectionist thing is killing him. he knows he needs to develop the outside shot, even if it’s to the detriment of the team. F*#@ the outside shooting exhibition and drive the ball to the basket. i recall one play where he drove, got bumped in the lane, missed his shot, grabbed the board and got fouled on the putback. stop shooting 3′s and take a TH mentality and get to the line. the 3′s will come in time, but for now help the team.
“I find it interesting that you rarely see K cajole his players to play harder.”
Serious question, but is this true, or is that we just pay more attention to what Roy says postgame? And if it is true now, was it also true during the 2007-2009 seasons, when it really looked like UNC was running away from Duke? I have no idea, as I really don’t pay any attention to what K says after games, that is, until it reaches the level of the national media (e.g. “The real victim.”)
“did anyone notice the 5 minute stretch in which LD played with intensity to start the 2nd half? played tough d, forced a turnover and was disruptive…made an aggressive backdoor cut, didn’t get it, curled around to the wing LOOKING for his shot, took it without hesitation and knocked it down. that, to me, begs the question of where the heck is that all game long?”
This, +10.
For me, the question has never been whether Drew “can do it,” it has always been one of “why it doesn’t it happen most of the time?” But then again, same questions were asked about Lawson, though his “can” was obviously at a much higher level.
and for Henson, unless we want more of Watts, then he’s going to see significant time on the court. His deficiencies can be mitigated if we insert more firepower into the lineup and mentalities of those in the game:
Kendall – looks to probe and penetrate and get the ball to people in scoring positions (i.e. close enough for henson to make a dunk). this unbalances defenses and should create help situations, from which offensive rebounding opportunities should arise.
Dexter – needs to be instructed to put the ball on the floor and take it to the rim. just floating around the perimeter when you know you can’t shoot doesn’t help.
reggie- more PT and now a dangerous long range threat should ease the pain of double teams on henson (and z).
HB – HAS to be more aggressive. i should never see HB on the wing looking to throw the ball into Henson with the expectation that Henson will make a move. this should simply be to see if his man sags off so he can get the return pass and shoot or drive.
“For me, the question has never been whether Drew “can do it,” it has always been one of “why it doesn’t it happen most of the time?” But then again, same questions were asked about Lawson, though his “can” was obviously at a much higher level.”
Exactly, and it will be interesting to see how Roy addresses this situation over the next couple of weeks. I would not be surprised to see 4 different starters in the line up tomorrow night (Zeller is the only starter without his job in jeopardy)………
Good chance for Roy to use what he learned from the “what would I have done different from last season” retrospective.
In either year 3 or year 4 of the Hansbrough Takeover of Cameron Indoor Stadium UNC was experiencing some difficulties, in the first half, against Dook’s halfcourt defense. In the second half Roy basically told everybody not named Ty Lawson to draw their defender out of the lane so that Ty Lawson could drive to the basket. Could we do try the same thing with Strickland, Drew or Barnes?
^^Yup. For some people, fear of losing something (PT, in this case) is the greatest motivator. For others, a desire to get more of something is the bigger motivator. Maybe Drew falls into the later category.
I’ve always wondered what percentage of college coaches take the opportunity to sit in on Psych classes. Not only would it be a great way to get a way from the game for a bit, but you would have to think some of it would come in handy when dealing with multiple personalities (in a team, not one single player…)
“Serious question, but is this true, or is that we just pay more attention to what Roy says postgame? And if it is true now, was it also true during the 2007-2009 seasons, when it really looked like UNC was running away from Duke? I have no idea, as I really don’t pay any attention to what K says after games, that is, until it reaches the level of the national media (e.g. “The real victim.”)
oh it happens, but it’s not a running narrative like it is with Roy, even when things aren’t going so smoothly. Seriously CM, I believe collectively we have reached a point where many truly believe that a player should be honored just to put on the jersey, after all we recruit “supposed” top shelf talent–shouldn’t “they” be self-motivated? At THF, we seem split on whether the problem is whether we are “missing” on our talent, and whether the players just don’t care. It’s an integral part of a HC’s job to motivate. Hell, we even brushed this issue during Smith’s tenure…to wit-the “wine & cheese crowd” which btw was also a shot at the team. It’s inevitable I suppose, and no one is immune, but it’s also correctable, but mainly by the dude that sets the tone…and it has to be behind closed doors imho.
I’ll add that K and Anson both are great at creating that seamless us vs them mentality. Maybe it’s just me, but it still bothers me that not one of the other players wasn’t all the way up Gerald Henderson’s a** after that cheap shot on TH. To me, that says something about the mentality…jmo.
“It’s inevitable I suppose, and no one is immune, but it’s also correctable, but mainly by the dude that sets the tone…and it has to be behind closed doors imho.”
Couldn’t agree more. Though I also wonder if some of Roy’s emphasis on “effort” is nothing more than his own public speaking, coach-speak, crutch.
When the team wins: “The effort was good…” When the team loses: “Our effort sucked…”
Or for K, “The officials were horrible tonight,” versus “the officials did a great job controlling the game tonight.”
This panic is comical. Our best players are extremely young and inexperienced. With youth and inexperience come growing pains. This team had to play against some strong, in your face defenders for the first time and it showed. If we keep up the defensive intensity we’ll be fine.
Barnes will be fine. He’s pressing right now. Personally, I’d really like to see Bullock get more minutes at the 2 and I’d like to see McDonald’s minutes head towards zero at all positions.
maybe so, but he does seem given to court-side histrionics, and, as others have noted, occasionally calling someone out in a presser. It’s almost as if he has bought into the (many of them) fan narrative that these guys ought to play appropriately when you put on the Carolina jersey. news-flash-other teams aren’t scared of that s*** anymore. How can you know if you have talent if you don’t have heart?
The subject of the “entitled player” has come up, and it’s plenty interesting.
I could start with the fact that we now have a culture of entitlement, making it no surprise that the children it creates feel entitled. But that is beyond the scope here.
More to the point is the Harrison Barnes story. I have not been as high on Barnes as many here, partly because the swooning assessments wore rose colored glasses, and were premature in any event. I explicitly criticized Roy for saying Barnes’s selection as a preseason AA was “a remarkable accomplishment,” on the theory that it was no accomplishment at all. Barnes did not then (or now for that matter) HAVE any college accomplishments. What was Roy thinking about? What were WE thinking about?
The answer, I suppose, is that we were looking for The Hansbrough-Type Savior, the guy who would come in and give us light in this season where there was only darkness last year. Thus far, that hope looks destined to meet the routine fate of wishful thinking.
It was heresy to say it about Barnes at the time, and perhaps now as well, but I did not like his Signing Day act. Yes, he is well-spoken, well-presented and, so far as we know, a solid citizen. But something was amiss, and it goes to this entitlement question.
Here he was, a 17 year-old boy, putting on an orchestrated, glitzy, Hollywood-style, Skype-driven extrazaganza to what he (correctly, unfortunately) took to be a wide and adoring audience. It came complete with his turning over the cards of the unlucky “losing” schools until — oh glory — he arrived at us, the grateful suitor.
Excuse me, but there is something wrong with that. A very few years before, we had another highly sought-after recruit, although not No. 1, who made a very different sort of announcement. There was no extravaganza, no Skype, no glitz, no nothin’. If I recall correctly, he pulled up a table in his high school gym and, with his coach and some scattered local newspapers present, made his choice. He didn’t say much. Indeed, in the years that followed, he STILL didn’t say much. It was an effort to get him to talk at all. He was a terrible TV interview.
He never felt entitled, and never played entitled. No one said that he could be headed to be President of the United States, as they did about Barnes.
Still and all, as CM has pointed out, Tyler Hansbrough never let us down. None of us felt we had been led down the garden path. We never saw an 0-for-this or an 0-for-that.
Barnes may yet turn out to be a good player. But, with all respect to him and the sacrifices he and other Division I players have to make, he has already shown that he would have been wiser to make Tyler Hansbrough’s Signing Day debut instead of the fancy one he staged for himself.
And yes, part of what we are seeing now is linked to it. The feeling of entitlement, of self-importance and self-aggrandizement, means something, and it has consequences.
“And yes, part of what we are seeing now is linked to it. The feeling of entitlement, of self-importance and self-aggrandizement, means something, and it has consequences.”
if for no other reason, than a junkyard dog can say he “skooled yo a**”!
seriously, you make a good point rath–I think & hope despite Barnes “roll-out”, he’s still a good kid & will get rolling, but it is instructive (on many levels) nonetheless.
Big Game –
Doin’ my best, boss. You and much of the rest of the board know more about the technical aspects of the game than I, but I do my cultural criticism thing. I teach law school now, and I’m thinking about putting together a class on law and culture for next fall’s semester.
Meantime, I think scl11 is pretty much on the mark, and I would add only one thing, that being that we need but still don’t have a go-to player, a leader, a guy who can carry the team through adversity (and also can be trusted to take the last shot). Until we get that, we’re in trouble.
^Agree, this team is a bunch of front runners, there is no one on this team that when things get tough says “give me the ball and get the f&ck out of my way.” Basically I think we have too many nice guys that don’t want to rock the boat and hurt anyone’s feelings. Getting along is important for team chemistry, but you also need the Alpha Dog that might have to be an ****** Hole every once in awhile to ensure the team’s success is put ahead of people’s feelings. Maybe (fingers crossed) that is Marshall, Bullock, or Barnes because I’m skeptical that there is an Alpha Dog amongst any of the returning players.
Man scl11 u hit it right on the head! I been sayin that 4 the last 2 yrs. Enough of the soft smiling Hensons and Drew and all these guys man! Get what u had in 05 06-09! Fire! these guys look like a bunch of walking dead men on the court! I’ve not seen 1 player in 2 yrs get excited or try to get up in guys grills and say lets go man!! A team with more than 5 high sch all Americans and no leader? Roy needs to get a former player or 2 on the staff to correctly identify certain things in players! there is no way in hell he went to games of these guys and couldn’t c that putting them together is the answer! U can spot a leader right away esp at the guard spot which is killed us since Lawson!
“^Agree, this team is a bunch of front runners, there is no one on this team that when things get tough says ‘give me the ball and get the f&ck out of my way.’”
This is the best quote ever about the season so far.
In my self-reflection, is the problem Roy? I know I was frustrated as all hell after last night, but these kids have got some talent. Why are we having these problems? I won’t go so far as to compare him to his incompetent football counterpart, but are the problems more with coaching instead of with the guys on the court?
^^You know what kind of player this team could have used this weekend? Its the same kind of player they could have used last year. A player with the same attitude as … John Wall. But Roy has made it abundantly clear that he’s not interested in that kind of player, so I don’t know where that leaves us.
After seeing Barnes play these past four games, having going back and seeing his high school stats, having read everybody’s take on him on THF, I now believe that Roy has put the brakes on him. In those AAU games he was unreal. I take from that as very little coaching and all about the player. Roy is teaching team ball, which is good, but thats not highlight reel material. Thats why he didn’t go after Wall, he couldn’t coach him. I think if he would unleash Barnes, we would see the #1 hs recruit. Lets not give up on the guy just yet, his play might not be his fault but within the team concept.
^So Roy made Barnes miss all 12 shots in a game, sorry but that statement is just asinine.
Folks can call Wall a lot of things, but one thing you cannot call him is lethargic (which is what our team was last year and last weekend). The guy would get mad when his team was losing and then go out on the court and try to do something about it. Our guys just seem to hang their heads and accept losing. Wall would have only been in Chapel Hill for one year, but maybe during that one year his “hate to lose” attitude would have rubbed off on this year’s returning players.
Scl11, I did not say Roy made him miss all 12 shots and Im sorry that my statement is just (asinine) to you. I wish I was as smart as you though. You seem to know more than anybody here and also know more than Roy does. Roy gets mad when the players are not in the correct spots on the floor. Also he talks about them missing there assignments all the time. The players have to think about what Roy wants them to do instead of just letting them play. You don’t think that Barnes has not thought about driving to the rim some but didn’t because Roy wants them to pass the ball around first. I quess you also don’t think Dean put the brakes on Jordan in his first year. You’re going to eat those words, I’ll remind you about that later…..