Wake County Superior Court judge Howard Manning, who seems to be frequently in the middle of significant education-related cases in North Carolina (e.g. Leandro, Wake year-round, low-performing high schools), has made official a ruling that UNC must turn over to a group of media outlets certain phone records and parking tickets sought in the ongoing NCAA football investigation.
UNC officials had claimed the phone records and parking ticket information are protected educational records under the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act, or FERPA. Manning disagreed and said the university must turn the requested records over to media outlets that include the News & Observer, the Charlotte Observer, and The Daily Tar Heel student newspaper.
(As an aside, as someone who works in education, I can tell you the breadth of FERPA is stunning. Anyone who has run across HIPAA, the health information privacy cousin of FERPA, knows some of what this law is like. Carry on.)
Last month, Manning ruled that UNC had improperly withheld information regarding people employed as tutors in the athletic academic support program, but did not issue a final ruling on the parking tickets and phone records until Thursday. The university immediately announced it will seek a stay in the lawsuit and will appeal the judge’s decision.
Critics, media types, and ABCers have accused UNC of obfuscation in releasing highly redacted phone records, particularly of former assistant coach John Blake, and in classifying parking tickets as “educational records”. Those on the UNC side had pointed out that hundreds of hours have been spent complying with these requests and thousands of pages of documents have already been released. Chancellor Holden Thorp said in a statement that UNC should protect the privacy rights of all students “whether they’re on the football team, in the marching band or in a Chemistry 101 class.”
“So this is really not about the football investigation,” Thorp said. “If this ruling were to stand, it would put the privacy rights of all of our students at risk. “We have provided more than 23,000 pages of documents in response to the plaintiffs’ requests. That includes hundreds of pages of phone records in redacted form. We have even offered to provide the parking tickets with personally identifying information removed. We have done our best to comply with N.C. public records law and our federal obligation to protect student information at the same time.”
As a disclaimer, let me reiterate that it has always been the official position here at THF that the truth must be told as it relates to the football investigation and let the chips fall where they may. With that said, however, the media outlets in this case seem to be serving their own self interest, which is to drive readership, while veiling it in the name of public service.
The University of North Carolina is accountable to the people of North Carolina through its duly appointed Board of Governors of the UNC System and to the UNC Board of Trustees, as well as to the sanctioning body of intercollegiate athletics, which is the NCAA. By all accounts UNC has been fully cooperative with all of those parties. Media outlets often claim they are serving some higher purpose in bringing things to light for the public good while they are often hypocritical in their own dealings in doing whatever it takes to get the story.
Let us recall that our intrepid local media has frequently been scooped by national writers in a number of facets of the football unpleasantness, especially as it relates to Blake. The phone records request is their way of trying to find out who Blake and other coaches were talking to by having the phone calls released as public records, when it normally takes a subpoena to obtain this kind of information.
The same issue applies for the parking tickets. The media outlets clearly appear to be on a fishing mission here in hopes they can uncover something like was revealed at Ohio State. Supporters of the release of the parking tickets have claimed that they are not educational records and that when someone gets a traffic ticket, the information is publicly available (which is why lawyers are able to send solicitations to people who get traffic tickets).
But parking tickets are different – they are not issued to an individual, but to a vehicle. A record is then made of the registered owner of the vehicle and notice is sent to that person if the parking ticket is not paid. Information regarding the registered owners of vehicles is usually not available to the general public, but only to governmental agencies and law enforcement. By declaring this information as public record, Judge Manning has removed this inconvenient legal hurdle for the media. From this point forward, if someone in the media thinks Neon Boudreaux got a Lexus from a booster, all they have to do is stalk the car, wait for it to get a parking ticket, then file a public information request to find out to whom the car belongs.
Ultimately, what this boils down to is that the local media does not want to get scooped by the NCAA. They want to report on the infractions, not write about the infractions report. If UNC has been as cooperative with the NCAA as they claim, then all the information the media outlets seek has already been shared with the NCAA and will be reflected in their final ruling. But the NCAA heavily redacts (or anonymizes) the names and details in its reporting. Even in the famous USC report when the player in question was obviously Reggie Bush, the NCAA never referred to him by name. Newspapers don’t play like that. They want to be able to report that “Marvin Austin took X benefit from person Y” or “John Blake called Gary Wichard about player Z,” not regurgitate redacted details from an NCAA report.
Let’s be clear: it is the media’s job to investigate and report and it is Holden Thorp’s job to lead, guide, direct, and even protect UNC through this unpleasantness. I understand the media’s zeal in pursuing this story, and it would be even more important if UNC was somehow stonewalling the NCAA, but does not seem to be the case.
Still it seems petty for these media outlets to sue UNC to force the university to essentially give the media everything UNC has given the NCAA so they can print it before the NCAA has a chance to rule. At the end of the day, this is what all this is about, not some great quest for the public good. If I was a betting man, I would lay money that UNC will get its stay and the NCAA will issue its ruling before the appeal is decided.
[UPDATE] Friday’s N&O article mentions an additional piece of the puzzle:
One issue in the suit has not been decided.
The media organizations are seeking all documents and records of any investigation conducted by the university related to any misconduct by any UNC-CH football coach, any UNC-CH player, any sports agent, any UNC-CH booster and any UNC-CH tutor. (emphasis added)
Lawyers have not argued their cases before Manning in regard to that request.
Media representatives argue that such records should be disclosed so the public can fully know what happened at a publicly funded institution.
“Until these documents are released and examined, there will be a cloud over the football investigation,” (News & Observer Executive Editor John) Drescher said.
So in addition to the records previously requested, the media essentially wants UNC to turn over everything that has been given to the NCAA in order for the newspapers can “examine” it “so the public can fully know.”
I’m sure John Drescher knows that the chances of receiving this information are much more slim as student discipline records are clearly protected by FERPA (as we learned during the honor court hearings) and North Carolina has some of the most stringent laws in the country as it relates to personnel matters.
But Drescher’s comments only prove the point about the media’s ultimate purpose in filing suit and requesting this information – they want to write the story and not rely on the NCAA, who will not name names.
![[Bloglines]](http://www.tarheelblog.com/wp-content/plugins/bookmarkify/bloglines.png)
![[del.icio.us]](http://www.tarheelblog.com/wp-content/plugins/bookmarkify/delicious.png)
![[Digg]](http://www.tarheelblog.com/wp-content/plugins/bookmarkify/digg.png)
![[Facebook]](http://www.tarheelblog.com/wp-content/plugins/bookmarkify/facebook.png)
![[MySpace]](http://www.tarheelblog.com/wp-content/plugins/bookmarkify/myspace.png)
![[Technorati]](http://www.tarheelblog.com/wp-content/plugins/bookmarkify/technorati.png)
![[Windows Live]](http://www.tarheelblog.com/wp-content/plugins/bookmarkify/windowslive.png)
![[Yahoo!]](http://www.tarheelblog.com/wp-content/plugins/bookmarkify/yahoo.png)
![[Email]](http://www.tarheelblog.com/wp-content/plugins/bookmarkify/email.png)
I don’t recall reading an article on this blog that I have disagreed with more. The days of blaming the “media” for investigating legitimate news stories (whether through traditional reporting or FOIA) should be over. If you disagree with the Judge’s ruling, that is one thing. But blaming newspapers for bringing a lawsuit (which the trial court held was the correct legal position) does not seem legitimate.
Were there any limits put on this ruling? What makes it fair game for the media to ask for the records of just football players but not everybody else? Or is it in fact now fair game for the media to ask for every parking ticket issued by any University to any student be handed over to them? Also, does this ruling apply to both public and private Universities, or would private Universities be exempt?
Speaking for myself(Doc can answer this if he chooses) I don’t know that we are blaming the media as much as we are calling a spade a spade here. The media is not engaging in some grand public service on the behalf of the citizens of the state of NC or trying to uncover massive government malfeasance. They are going after parking tickets and phone records so they can get information the NCAA or UNC won’t release in the final report. Doc’s line “They want to report on the infractions, not write about the infractions report.” was spot-on. The media wants details and they want to get it out there BEFORE the NCAA rules so they can craft the story and be the arbiter of whatever violations UNC has committed rather than rely on the NCAA’s report to do that.
The media has never and will never be engaged in a grand public service. Its job is to discover information that people want to know about and report it (for a fee). Why should the media have to wait until the conclusion of an NCAA investigation to report the news?
^What about my larger questions above? If there is reason to suspect foul play I’m all for investigative journalism. Its part of the checks and balances we have in our society to keep folks (including the government) honest. But, I also believe very strongly in personal privacy rights. Does the ruling open the door for anybody in the media to request every parking ticket that has been issued by every public institution out there regardless of who it was issued too (athlete, non-athlete, etc)? And would private universities be exempt since… well, how would you argue that their records are “public” records?
wb3,
Point taken but wouldn’t you surmise that the spirit and intent of FOIA is not to help the media get information to sell papers but rather to ensure some level of transparency in the government permitting a mechanism to pull back the curtain on certain things?
can someone remind me again what the issue with the parking tickets is? Did the university allow someone to not pay?
THF pretty much sums it up. Let me add that I never said the media shouldn’t be doing their own investigative reporting; I’m saying the media is using this lawsuit to circumvent FERPA and other legal obstacles. They would not be able to get this information through normal channels.
wb3 says something that I think actually buttresses my point. They frequently champion their reporting with the notion that it is the public’s “right to know” when their mission is exactly what wb3 says it is – to print stuff people will read and sell papers. I don’t fault them for that, but I do think it’s silly when UNC has given them over 23,000 pages of documents but they go to court because they want more information than they have been given.
Besides, plenty of investigation has been done by reporters in this case that did not require lawsuits and 23,000 pages of documents. That’s also part of my point.
We can also debate the extent to which a county judge is an expert in federal educational privacy laws, which is something I’m sure UNC’s lawyers will bring up on appeal.
Which then leads to RAJ’s larger question, which is also the point the chancellor made – where does this stop? And for those rival fanbases who may be hoping that parking tickets will reveal some nugget of information about shenanigans at UNC, just remember – if this stands, the media can come looking at your school, too.
THF – I am sure you are correct that FIOA was not intended for these circumstances and the media might be using FIOA for less than respectable reasons.
But the law is the law, and the Judge simply had to decide if the particular records were educational records that should remain private. If the media has the legal right to request the documents and people want to read about those documents, the analysis ends there in my (legal) opinion.
Finally, Judge Manning is just as competant to interpret federal law as any judge. Neither trial court judges nor appellate court judges are “experts” in anything – they simply have to decide the cases that are in front of them. Judge Manning is a graduate of UNC law school, which one of the best law schools in the country – so he can certainly interpret federal law as he would any other law. Any appeal of his decision would go to the NC Court of Appeals, the NC Supreme Court, or the US Supreme Court. Those courts certainly don’t specialize in federal educational law (though they can have different opinions based on their reading of it).
In the absence of any limits on this judgment (and so far, no limits have been mentioned), I view this judgment as the legalization of stereotyping as means of trampling on people’s rights.
Here’s how it works: 1) These guys play college football, 2) the stereotypical football player is dishonest and breaks rules, 3) that’s all the “justification” I need to go and get a judge to force someone to give me private information about those players to mine through to try to find something to justify the stereotype.
If a neighborhood has a higher then average crime rate, do the police have the authority to subpoena personal information about EVERY person who lives in that neighborhood regardless of whether or not they have due cause to believe that each and every person in that neighborhood has committed a crime?
I believe the answer is no (but I’m not a lawyer, so I readily admit I could be wrong), but a judge has decided that reporters have a right to behave that way in order to determine if people have violated NCAA rules (rules which, BTW, have NO legal authority in our country)?
I hope folks realize there is a larger issue at play here then just the UNC Football investigation.
850 – I think you may be failing to appreciate what the freedom of information act (i.e., the NC public records law) is about. The issue in this case is whether certain records are educational records protected from disclosure under federal law OR government records which must be disclosed (under NC state FIOA law unless there is a reason to keep them under wraps).
All we are talking about in this case is where to draw the line between public university open records and educational records.
Hate to say this but I’m embarrassed with the manner our football team and administration is handling this matter. I can’t turn a blind eye to the fact some really shady things went on here; covering up and delaying the process is only making it worse. I’ve read a good bit on the scandal from many sources and have to ask; if there is nothing to hide, why then is this media group including our own paper suing us!
Yahoo sports article said the NCAA has a good bit of dirt on us but not going to hand down final judgement until this information is released and processed. Delaying this is only making it worse. Just get it out, take our lumps and move forward.
Our sterling reputation is getting a real black eye from the football program. I hear and see UNC–CHeat everywhere now. I understand the football program will generate a lot of revenue, which will be needed to pay for our stadium expansion but at what price? Our integrity is not worth keeping Butch Davis around. I cannot believe he did not know anything like this was going on. I recall the DTH printed an editorial calling for Davis to step down in October. Was this retracted because we ran off a few wins?
People, there is much more at stake here than having a good football team. UNC as a whole has been tarnished. I could care less about football; we’ve never been a football school so why are we compromising all our greatness to try and be one now? I’d prefer we sack Davis, handle the punishment with dignity and rebuild in due time.
These delays and tricks are just making us look bad. Stop the appeals, hand over whatever we’ve been asked to deliver and get on with it. This gets more embarrassing by the day! Didn’t we suffer enough last fall with daily headlines? Sunlight is the best disinfectant; open the windows and clean up this mess before it gets worse. Fire Davis, fire Baddour and get somebody in here that won’t take the low road to success.
Too bad Roy can’t coach football too. He could teach Butch a thing or two about winning the Carolina way.
“if there is nothing to hide, why then is this media group including our own paper suing us! ”
Just because UNC does not want the media to have all the details doesn’t mean they were not totally forthcoming with the NCAA. In fact, everything I have read and seen in this scandal indicates UNC turned over phone records, emails and in the case of Robert Quinn had him give the NCAA investigator his cell phone so they could review personal text messages. UNC’s delay has to do with the larger battle of what is private and what isn’t but also making sure the NCAA’s final report is what tells the story not what the media can pull out of phone records and what not.
Let me put it this way. If the media gets the records they are seeking it opens up an entire new front in the PR war. Now UNC has to deal with copious amounts of information presented without context and through whatever filter the media chooses to present it. The NCAA, when it finally issues a report, will not be so forthcoming with the details. The violations will be discussed but names and other details will be omitted.
^^I am becoming more and more convinced that college football is not a sport you can succeed at without compromising a lot of UNC’s principles, and as such I am becoming less and less concerned about whether or not we have a successful football program. I am more concerned about being able to say we have a clean athletic department.
I agree with you that its time to get rid of Baddour and Davis. Both of them signed off on the hiring of John Blake (and both should have known his reputation and stayed the hell away from him) and both of them signed off on this idea of letting a tutor for the football team also become the personal tutor of the head football coaches son. Then there was the whole failure to monitor what their players were saying on social media and failure to investigate further when some of what was said should have raised red flags for them (as it did with the NCAA). Finally there was the decision by Butch Davis to let Chris Hawkins hang around the program even though he had been kicked off the team by the previous coach.
Chancellor Thorpe said the Carolina Way would be evident in the way this investigation would be handled. I’m not satisfied that that has been the case, and will continue to feel that way as long as Baddour and Davis are still employed by UNC.
Hells4Ever,
I think you are missing some key details of what’s been going on.
What have we held back? We have given the press over 23,000 documents already! UNC has to play a balance between providing the public with public information, and protecting the privacy of the students. If we would have just given the media anything and everything we have, then we would have violated the privacy laws and would have had another lawsuit/scandal to deal with. UNC can’t just backup a dumptruck of documents to the N&O.
When did we sacrifice anything just to win games or make money? I’m pretty sure we held out anybody & everybody we could. Many of those guys were completely innocent. I think this definitely shows that we were willing to sacrifice wins in order to follow NCAA rules.
UNC has a responsibility to the NCAA to follow the rules. UNC has a responsibility to the Alumni and Students to uphold the tradition of integrity. And UNC has a responsibility to follow the laws of the US & NC. UNC owes nothing to the local media. UNC HAS to provide the media with public information, and so far they have.
Sorry THF, I’m not agreeing with you. Sure I pull for our boys with all I have but I’m much prouder of my degree and what we stand for than advancing a mediocre football team to elite status. My gut feeling is if those records are released, much more is going to come out and worsen the situation (if it could get any worse than it is now). Delaying the inevitable makes us look worse than just letting it out.
This fall I took my kids down to UNC-NCSU game; we had pretty good seats and stayed to the end. A State player held up a sign that said “UNC-CHeat” and taunted us. My 8 year old daughter understands what that meant and asked me why. I really didn’t have anything positive I could say and will never forget how bad that burned. I couldn’t care less if we don’t win another game. The very thought that actions from rogue coach and borderline “scholarship-athletes” are degrading what this institution has built for 200+ years makes me furious. SEC coaches say if you aren’t cheating you’re not trying. I did not go to a second rate SEC school and don’t feel like we need to cheat to win. WE ARE NORTH CAROLINA! We win the Carolina way; academics before athletics.
It troubles me our administrators and fans are putting the football team before our integrity. This has little to do with invidvual rights and everything to do with a smokescreen to try and escape our misgivings.
People, please remember we have been a top notch university for 200+ years that doesn’t need a cheating football program any more than a fish needs a bicycle.
Wrong, this latest court battle has EVERYTHING to do with individual rights.
Lehman Brothers gave the SEC 5,000,000,000 pages of documents when they were investigated and that cache didn’t contain what the feds were looking for. Just because UNC “gave” 23,000 pages of material, that doesn’t mean we aren’t holding incriminating evidence back. One has to imagine there is much more or else why would our own newspaper take them to court?
I’m going to go on record and say I’m ashamed UNC, where I worked three jobs and paid my way through school is letting a bunch of spoiled athletes degrade my degree. Nobody helped me with books, tuition, special dining hall, tutors etc., and it infuriates me what this program has done to our reputation. I’m convinced we are very guilty and still in damage control mode. We’ve had to hire a PR firm and racking up way too many legal hours to cover up this mess. Classes are being paired back. Professors are being let go. In this financial crisis we still idle in we pay a fortune to “upgrade” a stadium.
I’m a fan…you better believe it. But I’m for academics first. Butch Davis and the administration are going about things the wrong way; crooked in my opinion. Like I said before I don’t care if we never win another game. I’d rather return to being a perpetual below average football team than let these prima donnas ruin our reputation. Davis and Baddour should have been fired last fall.
Turn over whatever the investigators ask for and get on with it. This beating around the bush makes us look worse and worse as a university every day. To hell with the football team; we’re a basketball school first anyway!
“Turn over whatever the investigators ask for and get on with it”
Don’t confuse what the media is asking for with what the NCAA has asked for. Neither the News and Observer, nor the DTH, nor any of the other media outlets in the lawsuit are the relevant investigators here. They want to be, because it wins awards, sells papers, and drives web traffic, plus they get to craft the story, not the NCAA.
By all accounts the university has cooperated fully with NCAA investigators and the NC Secretary of State’s office, which is really all that matters here. They have turned over everything the NCAA and/or NCSoS have asked for and held players who were otherwise deemed eligible out of games to be safe. The fact that the media wasn’t invited to the party is what irritates them.
Doc, we also invite the media to the party when we win a game. Let’s not forget that the media creates interest in the program with positive stories on players and coaches all the time. Davis only has himself to blame. He had to know of Blake’s history. So hire him and keep an eye on him Butch! Or be smart and safe and don’t hire him at all. I personally don’t believe that Davis is that stupid or that innocent.
I was a federal prosecutor for a number of years. I believe in following the rules even when it hurts, in transparency, in taking responsibility for what you do, in eschewing excuses (like “everybody does it”), and in not dodging the consequences of your behavior.
I am not, however, a believer in punishment without limit. This whole thing has gotten out of hand. Players were punished without any particular showing of guilt. A cloud was cast over the whole program. The investigation is starting to remind me of these daytime soap operas that go on and on for years.
Yes, there is part of me that wants to know the last little piece of dirt; sunshine is, as they say, the best disinfectant. But the larger part of me has become convinced that what’s actually going on here is voyeurism and a not-so-healty quest for titillation.
Federal criminal law, like most state law, has a statute of limitations on almost all offenses (five years for those who are curious). Its purpose is to grant the authorities a reasonable time to bring wrongdoing to book — and thereafter to grant repose. Enough is freakin’ enough.
We are not at that stage yet, but we’re closing in on it. UNC RAJ may well be right, as he often is, that it’s impossible to conduct a successful, big time football program without cheating. If so, I guess the only honorable thing for Carolina to do is call a halt to it, although that would be a very lonely stance and — or so it has the feel to me — a punitive/masochistic one.
That, however, is a long-term problem. The present investigation and all its extremely annoying publicity has gone on since what feels like 1920.
Enough. We got a super break when Zeller, Henson and Barnes all decided to come back. I understand those who will want to continue to follow the football darkside, but I’d rather think about all the positives that lie before us. I really don’t want to know one more thing about who got a diamond earring or a night at the Four Seasons or plane fare to South Beach — not when I could be drooling for the Blue-White Game.
Scandal, schmandal. Let the State fans think what they want (and I use the word “think” advisedly when referring to State). If I were cast in their lot, I too would want to direct my attention to anything but my own school.
This football stuff will pass. Let’s just be happy that November and our quest for the national championship are coming. The only problem is they can’t get here fast enough.
Folks, we’re not seeing the forest for the trees…
Suspending individual players is a cosmetic fix, diverting attention from the real issue here; the rogue administration. We will continue being viewed as cheaters until the current coach and AD are shown the door (as they should have last fall).
John Blake was a hell of a recruiter…no question he somehow got great players to play in CH…but I have a bad feeling it was via improper, illegal methods. Butch Davis had to have some idea of what transpired and if he is lying about it, he’s no better than Tressel. The media group wants access to emails and phone records, not from the players but from the coaches and administrators to see if they can find evidence in this arena. Also the parking tickets aren’t being requested for any reason other than to see who the cars are registered to, which show purchase and ownership records. If our players are getting cars against NCAA rules, it should be revealed and accept punishment.
I have a bad feeling much more went on and we’re hiding it…having Blake as a fall guy and suspending individual players is a weak sacrifical effort to say we are internally taking care of the problem…public show. If indeed the coaches and administration is aware of misgivings and witholding evidence, let’s not drag this out any longer. Get it all out, deal with the appropriate punishments and let the healing begin. I cannot take another fall of daily news articles, accusations and embarrassment. Butch and Baddour’s actions are killing our credibility and we need to cut out this cancer dragging the entire school down.
Fellow UNC fans can disagree with me but IMO we’ve got way too much tradition and success to have it all sullied by a crooked coach and his staff. Get rid of Davis and get back to winning the Carolina Way!
Speaking of forest for the trees…
Again, let’s not confuse the greater football unpleasantness with the specific issue of the media’s lawsuit against UNC. We here at THF have always maintained that the truth, however unflattering, must be revealed and that whatever consequences result from that are what they are.
I maintain (and THF can speak for himself is he wishes) that the accountability to fans, alumni (of which I am one, also class of ’91), and the university community is not required to be channeled through the N&O or the DTH. The media frequently seeks sordid details in their supposed quest for the public good, whether it is autopsy reports, 911 tapes, police reports, or whatever. And there are times, when obfuscation is clear, that the media can and should pursue letting the sunshine in.
But that does not seem to be the case here. It appears that UNC has assisted and cooperated with the NCAA, the governing body for college athletics, fully. The NCAA will (as Charles Robinson keeps assuring us) provide a complete summary of its findings. Justice and accountability will come, but it will come through the NCAA, not the News and Observer, and that hacks them off.
I have a hunch we may be looking at a situation similar to that of Tressel with BD; NCAA violations occured and when confronted with them, Tressel knew potential for serious program harm was present and when confronted by the NCAA, he denied the allegations. Someone found evidence to contradict this and now he’s been called a liar and OSU (and Tressel) are facing major punishment. I cannot accept the notion BD was in the dark or that stupid to claim ignorance.
IF he’s lying and anything we are witholding proves this to be true, we will really, really look bad. Again, I’d rather face the music than contiune this charade.
One thing I’m not clear on; is the media group suing for information we already gave the NCAA or is this over and above what they requested in their inquiry? Also, aren’t we culpable for Blake’s actions as a program because he was on our staff or does his resignation effectively end there? I’ve never heard the NCAA declare sanctions against the program for his transgressions, i.e., being on Wichard’s payroll to the tune of $6figures. And are we to believe BD knew nothing of this?
Doc, I’m a fan like you but I think you’re turning a blind eye to the meat of this investigation and hoping the suspensions will be seen as just punishment to make this all go away…I’m afraid that optimistic stance isn’t going to end up the way we all hope.
At the end of the day, I’m standing by my opinion that BD and company broke a lot of rules and it’s really damaged our reputation. He should have been fired last fall, along with Baddour. THAT would have been the fastest, cleanest way to take our medicine and the dragging out, lawsuits, diversional tactics are making this all so much worse. I have way to much pride in my school to quietly watch it tarnished by a drive to make us a football power when we already have so much going for us. UNC football is an embarrassment to our school and the entire ACC.
Heels4ever,
I am not turning a blind eye to the meat of this investigation. I am neither a member of the “summarily fire everybody” club (as you seem to be) nor am I part of the delusional “I support Butch no matter what” legion that seem to inhabit message boards.
I have always been in favor of allowing the NCAA investigation to play out and then do what has to be done. And again, it is my belief that the NCAA and UNC are the appropriate parties to conduct that investigation, not the N&O and DTH. My opinion of the media’s lawsuit is driven by the fact that I don’t think it’s their place to conduct a parallel investigation. If no investigation was going on, that’s a different story.
Yes, the media is essentially asking for everything we have given to the NCAA. According to the N&O’s editor, there will be a “cloud” over the investigation unless UNC turns everything over to them so they can make their own conclusions independent of the NCAA. I think that is a bunch of hooey and that’s why I wrote this article.
OK, fair enough..
Reading these boards, I feel I’m part of a minority that puts academics before athletics…no matter the cost. Too many seem to support BD and accept his “I did not know but sure wish I did” statement…I simply don’t.
I’m no fan of the media and know what drives readership. I was in CH during the time NCSU fell with the N&O driving the bandwagon. We laughed and took great delight poking fun at our rival down the road and I felt strongly we’d never stoop to such levels as the Valvano program did.
Sadly, I cannot help but see our football players are doing exactly the same as NCSU’s basketball team; getting improper gifts, working with agents, etc. When BD was hired, in the back of my mind I harbored concern the other shoe would drop one day and it looks to me like it has. It takes an active media sometimes to unearth the truth…like Watergate. Nobody wanted to believe our President could be part of such criminal activity but aggressive reporters sniffed it out. Nobody in CH wants to imagine this could happen here too butI really think it has.
I cannot blame the N&O writers, as well as our own for looking for fire when they see smoke. This is indeed a juicy story and frankly, our pride in “Winning the Carolina Way” mantra rubs many the wrong way. Of course they are just foaming at the prospect of finding UNC hypocritical; it will sell papers and propel careers.
Over twenty years ago I enrolled at UNC, worked my tail off to make high marks and several jobs to pay for the cost. No way will I sit back quietly and let BD’s group give inferior fans a green light to christen UNC with the moniker “UNC-CHeaters”. Time to face up to our transgressions and remember we are a top notch univeristy and not a “Pipeline to the Pros” like what is written on the wall in our football locker room.
Heels4ever1991 –
Don’t get me wrong. I admire your insistence on standards, and I don’t think anyone here puts sports before academics, or before high standards more generally. You are quite right, in my view, to be dug in on that.
Find the truth and let the chips fall where they may, yes. My only caveat is that, while we should not try to evade just punishment, we are right to remind people that the punishment SHOULD NOT BE THE PROCESS ITSELF, and particularly the drag-on-forever quality that this process is beginning to resemble.
I had some complicated conspiracy and major felony cases when I was a prosecutor. The majority could be done in less time than this investigation is taking. Sanctions are just punishment. An unending cloud of suspicion over everyone and everything connected to the program is something very different. Punishment by innuendo, speculation and attrition is not the mark of a culture that cares about high standards. It’s a mark of a culture that isn’t very particular about who gets hurt, and that sort of thinking is no more the Carolina way than giving a wink-and-a-nod to cheaters.
“It appears that UNC has assisted and cooperated with the NCAA, the governing body for college athletics, fully. The NCAA will (as Charles Robinson keeps assuring us) provide a complete summary of its findings. Justice and accountability will come, but it will come through the NCAA, not the News and Observer, and that hacks them off.”
Here here!
The last sentence of this says it all…..the “news outlets” want to beat the NCAA to the punch and they can’t handle that. I also firmly believe that they’re looking for additional crap to throw at the wall and see if it sticks by breaking something new that the NCAA missed.
Journalism is a dying art; no longer is the priority reporting events of the day truthfully. It’s all about trying to drum up the most controversey and to get as creative as possible with the facts. The agenda of the writer/”news” organization drives what’s included or excluded from the story.
When the media decides that the recrods they’re getting now isn’t enough to help grind their axe, it will mean another lawsuit to try and get what they want.
Wow, strong feelings on this subject. ABCers must be having a lot of fun seeing our UNity break down as it has in response to this artiCle.
fire BGDD and Dickie. I couldn’t care less about an “ABCer”, I’m interested in rebuilding and maintaining the integrity of our beloved institution. Just because you wish to sweep something under the rug doesn’t mean that the rest of us have to turn a blind eye to it.
^^1) Hire a competent AD who doesn’t let his head coach hire a known program wrecker as an assistant and 2) Hire a competent football coach who knows how to properly monitor his assistant coaches and run a clean program, and also knows how to win more then 8 games and not get owned by NC State and THEN you’ll have a united fan base.
What is there to unite about? Seems pretty split between those who are disgusted with what BD has done to our reputation and those that don’t think it’s that bad and we’ve had enough punishment already.
This much I know; we are taking unprecedented steps to ease out of this and it burns my ******. We should have NEVER hired that snake BD and given him free reign to build this program. Rather than fire him we have:
Hired PR firm to coach our players and staff how to react to the media.
Racking up considerable legal fees (free from alumni or not), getting sued, appealing, dragging it out.
Hiring ex-NCAA officials who helped draft their rules to look for loopholes we can use to slip away. (see this article; very disturbing: http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/story/15067608/reps-with-ncaa-ties-help-schools-soften-penalties
Had our reputation dragged through the mud, media and it gets worse every day we employ this team and their tactics to avoid what appears to be the inevitable.
Butch Davis and his staff need to be terminated….period. Why we did not last fall is beyond me. If you think I’m going to join the ranks wearing “I support Butch” t-shirts, you’re crazy. We can’t get rid of this snake fast enough.
UNITY? All depends on the subject. If the goal is to unite and begin what is going to be a long process of cleaning up the steaming pile BD dropped on campus, sign me up. If you’re more concerned with having a top 25 football program with zero integrity, you’ll never have me on your side.
This crap has gone on long enough.