Well that was ugly.
Here is the bottom line on this game. UNC shot the ball poorly. That was basically it and anyone who wants to whine about effort or intensity can kindly refrain from dropping a comment below. This wasn’t about effort. The team focus may have been a little off but for the most part UNC got plenty of good looks at the basket. The number of point blank range shots missed was bordering on ridiculous. Most of the perimeter shots were badly off and looked short. The execution seemed to be there up to the point of finishing the play and there it seemed to fall apart. Was it tired legs from three games in six days? Playing in a completely dead building? The suckitude of Wake Forest was so massive it affected UNC? I have no idea but it should be noted that this game was not dissimilar to the one the Heels won over Wake Forest last season in Chapel Hill. In that game UNC shot 36% and went 5-27 from three but won by 14. Whatever the reason, we know bad shooting nights are inevitable. You just hope they don’t come against the wrong team. If UNC was going to have a crappy shooting game, Wake Forest is a good opponent to have it against.
Despite the poor shooting Tyler Zeller and John Henson put up double-doubles. Zeller had a personal best 18 rebounds which broke his previous best of 17 set against NC State last week. Kendall Marshall hit two threes, scored 14 points, six assists and zero turnovers. Harrison Barnes had 13 points but shoot poorly from the floor and the line. He also injured his ankle but returned to the game and did not appear to suffer any ill effects from it. Reggie Bullock did not impact the game offensively but hounded Wake’s C.J. Harris all night keeping him mostly in check.
That’s essentially it. You take the win and move one. On a historical note, this was UNC’s 600th ACC win making it the first school to reach that mark. Ironically UNC scored 14 fewer points in the 600th win that it did in the first won, an 82-56 throttling of South Carolina.
Now, let us never speak of it again.
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I decided to not watch Sportscenter hoping to watch UNC highlights. I figured the game was like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBZGSacj7y0
IF Barnes is not 100% sit him, can’t risk another injurie or Carolina is screwed
I don’t know if I can get “suckitude” into my next brief, but I’m sorely tempted to try it.
Example: “Defendant’s assertion that he had no idea how the ten bricks of cocaine got in the trunk of his car reeks of suckitude.”
This could be the start of something big.
The sucktitude of Reddicks arrogance permeated throughout the arena.
I agree. If Barnes is not 100%, I think you should sit him against Maryland. I don’t want another injury.
“Most of the perimeter shots were badly off and looked short.”
It seemed to me that a lot of the shots off the glass were short too, where they’d hit the backboard then the edge of the rim.
It would probably be an oversimplification to say the problem was that some of the guys just don’t have very good touch off the glass (actually, I think Marshall does it the best) unless they’re point blank, or that they simply don’t finish well with contact (though some of them don’t to a frustrating degree – this was even a point Bilas brought up).
But nights like this, where it seemed like practically all of them were doing it, have to be accepted as sort of a fluke. And it could certainly could at least partially be explained from maybe having tired legs. They were good looks and they normally will go down. Didn’t see anything in this game that takes away from positivity of their outlook.
The one great thing that came out of that disaster at FSU, was Tyler became the man… 18 and 18 wow!
Random observations:
–UNC just looked lethargic
–Wake is not good
–Wake is really NOT good
–Next season I won’t even remember if we played Wake in 2012
–Can we play dook already?
Sometimes you just have really bad shooting night’s. If we’re going to have one, I’d rather get it out of the way against a team like Wake then have it against a team like Duke… or FSU.
The only thing that really worries me is that Hairston is having more then just a bad shooting night – its been a very long time since he shot the ball well. I can’t remember the last time a UNC player had a slump that has lasted as long as his has.
^Agreed. I don’t think he has shot well since the Kentucky game. We won’t be able to win a national championship without P.J. and Reggie knocking down open threes.
They were all hustling in the game, but some shots looked a bit rushed, and they mostly looked tired. Not sure why that was other than it being the third game within a week.
Give Barnes plenty of rest against MD. That’st he second time he’s rolled his ankle, so don’t press his luck too far, and tape the living snot out of both of them.
“I can’t remember the last time a UNC player had a slump that has lasted as long as his has.”
We’ve certainly seen Hairston shoot better, and know what he’s shown to be capable of, but I don’t know how one can really say that a freshman who’s played 22 games is in a slump, per se.
The truth is we don’t know what his norm will be, but you have to think it won’t come close to being established his first year.
Just splitting the season in half so far, PJ shot 41% from long-range in the first 11 games, and 24% in the last 11. It would be easy to say that it’s just a slump, but it likely has as much to do with other factors of the games such as being an unpredictable freshman, maybe decision-making or forcing it a little more, a lot of things beyond just a normal shooter’s drought.
And I don’t really think it’s an increase in competiton thing because he shot well against Kentucky and UNLV. He needs to stay involved in the game in as many other ways as possible, and not force things, but most of all he just needs to keep shooting when he has good looks. It will come.
^Let me put it like this: we better HOPE it’s just a slump… because if this is his norm then …
That being said, I don’t think it’s his norm. The guy established himself as a lights out shooter all through high school and in the summer leagues and a wide open three in college isn’t much different then it is in HS. I wonder if there is some injury that’s bothering him? That’s clearly what had Bullock struggling last year after also coming out of HS with a reputation as a great shooter.
I didn’t keep up with Hairston much in HS. What was his 3 Pt. % ?
Anyway college is a different deal, particularly when you’re a freshman, and despite all the praise that was heaped on him early he still has to work his way through the learning curve.
Again his true norm is not known yet, but I do expect him to ultimately be a high-30′s to around-40 type shooter. He has a good stroke. (I have seen a couple of comments lately about him falling back on his shot, but I don’t know….maybe some mechanical issues)
No doubt we’ll need him to be good for at least one or two a game from here out.
I agree with Larry. I think it’s more of a “transition to college” thing. Hairston’s really only shot well in 5 games this season (USC, UNLV, UK, Monmouth and GT: 17-30). He is shooting 20.0% in the other 17 games.
Both James and PJ just need to take a deep breathe every time they get ready to check in, the game is still moving too fast for them. PJ needs to start finding other ways to score, driving, mid range, just to get used to seeing the ball go in the hoop.
James, just needs to slow done and start beliving in himself again. He is starting to show flashes, and if he can get some touches at the FT line, he can drive past him man.
Wayne, Harrison, John, Vince, and May are just some recent freshmen i can recall that struggled early but came around…
^Yup, and you can look all around the NCAA this year and see guys like Thomas Robinson and Dion Waiters who are living up to (and exceeding) expectations now that they are more adjusted and getting more consistent PT.
It was ugly. I kept thinking “thank goodness it’s Wake because we could be getting our doors blown off if we were playing a team that was actually making their shots”. It is what it is. It was what it was. Reggie continues to answer the bell defensively. Stillman doesn’t get the “yips” in the limited minutes he has played.
My only disagreement with your recap was Barnes injury. Yes, he came back in but was limping noticeably. He even blew out a tire on a drive (worse than normal) around the free throw line after returning and went to the ground. It ended in a jump ball and the camera moved away to Roy while they cleaned up the mess of bodies on the floor. If nothing else, he looked very shaky on that ankle. Credit to him for pushing through it, but it was clearly bothering him. I agree you rest him if you can and bring him back as close to full strength for you-know-who.
fatigue.
hey, where’s our signing day thread?
From Inside Carolina –
“Harrison sprained his ankle and said he could play and our trainer thought he could play, so we tried to play him instead of letting him sit over there and get it get stiff,” Williams said. “He’ll get a couple of days off now and hopefully will be ready to play on the weekend.”
Barnes told the first wave of reporters that his ankle was “in a lot of pain,” but updated his status with the second group.
“I can’t really feel it – it’s a little numb,” said Barnes, adding, “Rest and ice will hopefully make it feel better.”
As bad as everyone, including Barnes, was shooting in this game, I am not sure if there was a difference in his play before the ankle sprain and afterwards. Roy said Barnes and the trainer felt he could play. He gets two days off now and should be fine for the Maryland game on Saturday.
he made a 3 after the sprain.
i like how he just matter of factly describes the injury.
“its just a flesh wound.”
Taking the positive view regarding both PJ and JMM, there are very good reasons why they were so highly regarded and hotly recruited. Confidence can be hard to acquire and easy to lose…natural ability, a stellar track record in HS and abundant upside are even harder to acquire but are also more persistent. I am betting that both of these teenagers will surprise and delight us before too long…as will DH and Stillman, and as others have already in this team. Let’s not forget that only a few years ago none of these guys would have been playing Varsity ball as freshmen at all…and there were some pretty good reasons why not. Should we really be expecting 18-year-olds to be performing like pros in their first few months away from home?
Anyhow, there is no up without down, and since we’ve already seen the down…
“Let’s not forget that only a few years ago none of these guys would have been playing Varsity ball as freshmen at all..”
Man, I wish I could view thirty years as being only a few years ago. It would certainly make me feel a lot younger.
That’s a good point, though. While there are examples of freshmen not seeming like freshmen (we have a PG that was like that), even a few who went straight to the NBA and did well, the majority of them do need some time to adjust.
Lets take a look at another Carolina freshman….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIq7ma7c6UE
Who is Mike Jordan?
Seriously, that was a very cool clip.
Did you see Kentucky in that zone defense and UNC picked it apart every time down. How many times did Jordan hit a jumper in the gap on the wing?
Where is the Mid-Range Jumper Crusader? He’s got to be lurking somewhere.
___
Speaking of players who were good as freshmen, the more I think about it the more I like Marshall’s game last night. Now I don’t know how he graded out defensively (maybe not that well), but he shot it pretty well, made some 3′s, got 3 steals, and only turned it over once. Really good to see his offense get a bump even if it was against a weaker defensive team.
No doubt he’ll get the season assist record this year, barring some unforseen circumstance, but I’m more pleased with the way he’s protecting the ball. The next few games will put him more to the test.
^^not the most aggressive zone in the world. that has changed with time, too.
games you watch from this era, with no 3-pt shot, SO much passing. making one more pass, one more pass, trying to get the best look.
what a time. young Roy, Joe B Hall, Al McGuire.
and Jordan making shots from about the area he would drill The Shot.
speaking of UNC dunks, and dunks on dook…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQKUaZBHCOo&feature=related
A little OT, and I don’t know if it was addressed in the game thread, but– regarding Bilas’s analysis of this team versus ’09: I think the methods he used of talking about it were useful, but don’t entirely agree with his conclusions. Yes, ’09 was dominant (so was ’05, I would say), and a good way of elaborating on that is to say, as he did, that they would be contenders in any NCAA in history. Then he asked who from this crew would start in ’09. Now, ’09 dominated because of scoring power: Hansbrough and shooting (especially Ellington). Hansbrough would start now over Zeller, and Ellington would start as the best shooter. But Deon Thompson? Solid player but pretty sure Henson gets the nod. Lawson was pretty unstoppable there at the end, but I do not see that it’s obvious that he is the better college PG. Of COURSE it’s impossible to imagine Marshall being Lawson, but it is equally impossible to imagine Lawson being Marshall. Barnes would probably start. So, while Bilas was obviously right in calling ’09 the greater team, because of their overwhelming offense, I don’t think that they were entirely better player-for-player, at least not obviously so.
^I was thinking the same thing about Henson starting over Thompson. My goodness, so many more ways Henson would have affected the game. And you have to consider if it’s compared to this year’s players, then Henson would be a junior, same as Thompson was in ’09.
^^ I realize it’s 30 years…but then I sat in the bleachers and watched that svelte youg whippersnapper George Karl in action…not to mention another guy called MacAdoo! Please forgive my senility. Of course even Ol’ No. 23 in person blossomed appreciably during his years in Carolina blue, highlight reels notwithstanding…
i got lost on youtube awhile there…THF, feel free to delete
if you think it needs to be…
how bout Marshall making a couple of these passes?
#3 and #2 made me laugh out loud.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aDy8BqEuyE&feature=related
Kendall over a Jr Ty Lawson? cant let that one slide. Tywon had maybe the greatest year as a point guard in the ACC, and the ACC POY… Should of won the NCAA MOP, but im glad Wayne finally got some love. NO WAY kendall ever starts over Tywon Lawson, and I love Kendall.. Not a diss on Kendall, just how amazing Tywon was that year.
The only one Im 100% sure off is John over Deon, but Ed was John in 2009.
Pointless debate bc 2 different teams, but its just makes me miss Tywon a little more
It’s actually 40 years ago…
^ You’re right (1972) . It’s been so long I’ve forgotten how to subtract.
“The only one Im 100% sure off is John over Deon, but Ed was John in 2009.”
Except Ed was a freshman and John is a junior. In Roy’s system that usually makes the difference.
HTTE, the passes in 2 & 3 are awesome. But watching Pete, the amazing thing to me is his team mates were expecting the passes. They knew he would get them the ball.
And I know he ain’t the Pistol, but Marshall’s team mates appear to expect the same thing.
It makes all the difference, because in a lot of those situations I’d expect the ball to hit the back of someone’s head or go into the stands.
And let’s not forget that Tyler Zeller DID start for the 2009 team!
(Granted, it was only 2 games when Hansbrough was out.)
^first college game he scored 18.
It does take teammates a while to get used to playing with a PG with great passing skills. You can even see it in JMM, like he’s not quite ready for some of KM’s passes.
Not putting Rubio on the same level as Pete, or other great players, but he does have some unique passing skills and it took his Timberwolves teammates a while to get used to expecting the ball anywhere at any moment.
i talk regularly with a guy who played high school ball vs Pete. he was introduced to me as someone who guarded Pete many times. to which i said, “you mean you watched him go by.”
he was unguardable. he was 20 years ahead of his time, doing things no one had even imagined. had to be very weird for opponents to play against an alien.
Another reason why i hate Kentucky, and their dirty cheap foul on Tyler….
Part of me what Tyler to break Anthony Davis’ wrist
meanwhile, Fedora has brought in a VERY nice class, with the best NC QB, and a Parade All American WR from SC, plus a bunch of above average O linemen and LBs.
2009 vs 2012
Offense is no comparison – maybe you take every single starter in 2009 over 2012…yes, even Deon (he was fairly consistent with the jumper).
But regarding defense, I think only Lawson starts over 2012 starters. You could argue Hansbrough over Z, but Z can alter more shots and is becoming a rebounding machine.
So it really is the question this year: Can UNC win a NC with defense and just enough offense to get by? (since it has been mostly the opposite for Roy’s teams in the past).
You can’t really compare Maravich’s era to modern basketball, stat-wise, just like we talk about with past Carolina players versus those today, but his NCAA scoring records are among the most secure in any sport.
Former LSU coach Dale Brown did a study of all Maravich’s game film and concluded that from where he took his shots, and if the three-point line had existed, Maravich would have averaged 13 threes PG, and 57 PPG over his college career. (Maravich’s career avg.= 44.2 PPG)
I would start Zeller in place Thompson. Zeller can hit jumpers consistently. Plus, he is very very fast on the break.
^I agree…above I was just looking at it strictly position for position (PF Henson vs PF Deon).
I agree that there is not much to critique in last night’s performance or Sunday night’s. It is like watching Ali fight Alfredo Evangelista or Jean Pierre Cooper. Ali looked less than great in those fights, but then again, how do you get up for lackluster competitors who have no chance to beat you.
In terms of watchability, Roy’s best teams were 2005, 2007, 2009, 2006 and 2008. This team is perhaps more
like Roy’s first squad back in 2004.
It doesn’t make sense to me. This team should be much more interesting to watch than it is, but it just isn’t happening. The Wisconsin and MSU games were not compelling, nor was the Texas game, and obviously the UNLV and FSU games were sloppy.
It is hard for me to remember a similarly talented UNC team that was so boring to watch, even when winning. Maybe the 1994 team?
I know that younger fans and current students probably don’t care that much about watchability and are in more of a “just win baby” mode. I definitely was last year, after the horror of 2010. I still think UNC has a great chance to win it all this year, so maybe that will be enough, but where’s the Danny Green on this squad? Where’s the joy on the court?
Past UNC teams and past Celtic and Laker teams have clearly proven that you can be both great and entertaining. You don’t have to play like Wisconsin or UVA, or the Pistons of the 90′s to win a title.
“but where’s the Danny Green on this squad? Where’s the joy on the court? ”
I don’t know if a Danny Green-type will emerge but I’ve seen joy on the court at many times. John Henson obviously enjoys himself, and it appears other do as well though they may not be quite as expressive.
And it’s not like the ’09 team was like that every game what with the first two conference losses. This team got hit pretty hard at FSU, so the joy ride will no doubt have to regroup. A lot of it also has to do with maybe the significance of wins that will make them feel much better about themselves, oh like maybe a solid road win next Saturday and a butt kicking to Duke the next game.
It’s along season, and once they start getting where they really want to go I think you’ll see a pretty happy bunch, one who seems to enjoy each other and the opportunities of the moment.
As the season goes on, this 2012 team reminds me more and more of the 2007 UNC team – brilliant in spurts, but inconsistent with regards to intensity and shooting.
I am talking more about the team playing beautiful basketball and having verve. I agree that Henson has the most verve on the squad. I am thinking right now of Lawson’s great play to beat FSU a couple of years ago, and also remembering the amazing comeback against Clemson back in 2008. Hopefully, we will see some memorable things in the half season to come.
I just want to make a comment about the shoes. If Barnes turned his ankle wearing Jordans I can honestly say that he isn’t the only one to have issues with those shoes. Last October I kept turning both ankles while wearing Jordans. I still play in Jordans but I have to wear ankle braces on both feet now.
I see, William.
Beautiful ball, or the infrequent occurrence of it, aside, this season has not been nearly as memorable as the last. It’s either been mostly lopsided wins or solid defeats. The Wisconsin game was close but it never really seemed loseable. That kind of leaves Kentucky as the one opportunity for a special moment.
So yeah, from that point of view I’m sure most everyone would like to see, and hopes to see more of, those kinds of games. Personally, I’ve enjoyed most all of it save the FSU and UNLV games. And, if it came down to it this year for example, Duke 1 and 2 (maybe 3?) would make for good entertainment with narrow UNC wins, but it’s not good for my overall health. I’d prefer some double-digit beatdowns.
^^This should come as no surprise. It’s been know for many years that Jordan could break your ankles.
LOL Larry!! Yes, history has proven that!
Im all for having Harrison sit out, even if only precautionary. Of course, they weighing of the balance is at hand. Losing to Maryland could upset what we hope to have in a number one seed. A competetive loss on the road to Maryland probably wouldn’t hurt us that bad, given we win the rest of our schedule, barring a Duke loss. And, getting to the finals in the ACC tournament.
I guess what we have to weigh is the significance of a number one to number two seeding. Of course, Im not convinced we can win a NC without a productive Harrison Barnes. So my instincts tell me to sit him down for the Maryland game, and who knows, we could still win it.
Killing Duke is never boring. The three Duke games were very strange last year. We dominated 3 halves and they dominated three halves. They did outscore us over the three games, as I recall.
There are some pretty special things we get to see with this bunch, especially passes from Butta that run the break faster than anyone with the ball — even Ty — could do it.